Captain Ron and researcher Kelly Chase discuss her four-year immersion in UFO phenomena and alien abduction cases. Kelly reveals the personal experiences that pulled her into intense UFO research. She discusses patterns across numerous encounter reports and offers insights from her extensive investigations. This episode explores the depths of extraterrestrial contact theories through one investigator’s transformative journey into the unknown.
Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And you’re here.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Thanks for choosing the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost Day
and Paranormal Podcast Network. Your quest for podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural,
and the unexplained ends here. They invite you to enjoy
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Speaker 3 (00:21):
Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and
opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions
only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast
to Coast AM employees of premier networks, or their sponsors
and associates. We would like to encourage you to do
(00:41):
your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Hey everyone, it’s Captain Ron and each week are and
Beyond Contact. We’ll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss
some of the classic cases, and bring you the latest
information from the newest cases as we talk with the
top experts.
Speaker 5 (01:15):
Welcome to another episode of Beyond Contact. I am Captain Ron,
and today I’m speaking with Kelly Chase. Kelly is a
branding and marketing expert and also the host and creator
of the very successful UFO rabbit Hole podcast, and deservingly so.
Kelly has been in this field in earnest for only
about three to four years, and over that very short
span she has amassed an incredible breadth and depth of
(01:37):
knowledge in this area through reading an immense amount of material.
She has further ramped up her knowledge on the subject
through doing podcasts and interacting with experiencers. It’s always enlightening
speaking with her, and I feel like she’s a very refreshing, grounded,
rational approach to this topic. Hi, Kelly, how you doing today?
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Oh? Hey, Ron, it’s so great to be here. I’m
doing great. How are you?
Speaker 5 (02:00):
I am terrific and I’m really looking forward to this.
We’re just going to have a fun, casual conversation today,
and it’s going to be a lot of fun because
I know you have a lot of insight on this
topic here beyond contact, I tend to just jump in
off the high board and get right into the heart
of the matter. So let’s do that. You have looked
at this phenomenon pretty deeply over the last few years.
(02:20):
You’ve read a ton of material, You’ve interviewed experts, spoken
to people who claimed to have direct first hand witness
to either a UFO sighting or even direct contact with
what we’ll call for now aliens. After all of that,
and I know this is just wild speculation, but what
do you think is happening out there? Do you think
(02:41):
that US Earthlings are in fact having contact with some
form of non human intelligence? And if so, where might
they be coming from? Are they from another galaxy? Are
they from another dimension? Are they extra tempestrial beings from
the future? Do they live on Earth somewhere parallel to us?
All of the above? What’s the answer?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Starting with an easy one, right? But this is the question, right,
And I think that’s what has gotten me so obsessed
from the very beginning. And I will say my answer
to this changes and evolves all the time, just based
on new information. But I think that really what we’re
dealing with here is likely something that is something that
we’ve been dealing with throughout the history of humanity in
(03:25):
one form or another. It seems as though we are
sharing our planet in one sense or another with probably
multiple non human intelligences that we just have sort of
failed to recognize, or at least failed to recognize within
our current paradigm. Something that I think is really interesting
about this whole thing is that I think that the
(03:47):
Earth probably has a much more complex ecology than we
recognize currently. You know, when you think about the Earth
and what we have here, like we really do have
a gem and if you go, you know, hundreds of
millions of light years in just about any direction, you’re
not going to find anything like it. This just abundance
(04:08):
and proliferation of life that just kind of springs up
from every surface and in every corner. We’ve even found it,
like miles underground and at the bottom of Mariana Trench.
It seems like this entire planet is just this ball
of life. And it seems as though it could be
that there’s more here than we thought that there was,
(04:29):
and that it’s very likely that our planet is this
kind of beacon around which life congregates. And I think
that the that we’re only just now kind of waking
up to the sheer, vastness and complexity of what that
life actually looks like, and that there’s probably things that
are here that maybe we just haven’t we haven’t evolved
(04:50):
to deal with in terms of our senses and our understanding,
and that we’re beginning to become more aware of that now,
and so I think we’re probably dealing with a lot
of different things and that what we’re coming up against
is really a paradigm shift where we recognize a new
kind of life, a new way that life can exist.
Speaker 5 (05:09):
Absolutely, I guess, well, yeah, I mean, listen, these are
all everything we say at speculation because we’re dealing with
an unknown topic. But it is interesting to think about.
It’s always your perspective as well, and your technology as well.
For example, I don’t have the exact dates on this,
but let’s say two hundred years ago, we didn’t know
there were microbial beings walking around on our body.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
You know.
Speaker 5 (05:30):
Now we have the ability to zoom in and see them,
and we can see what’s unfortunately crawling around in our bed,
you know what I mean. We didn’t know that before.
It was only when we got the technology to see
there could we in fact learn what’s there. Just like
you were saying about the Marianna Trench, before we were
able to go down that low, we didn’t know that
(05:50):
this existed, and yet it was just right there down
the street and we didn’t know it was there. So
that I always feel like, could be what’s going on
with this now on human intelligence, I always like to
bring up the what they call the jungle theory. You know,
when you’re walking through the jungle to scientists and they
see an ant hill and they pick up one and
they put a number on its back and they put
(06:11):
it back. You know, the answer completely unaware that us
humans are there, and yet we are and we’re interacting
with them. So it might be something like that that
we just don’t have the technology or wisdom to know.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
Yet.
Speaker 5 (06:23):
What do you feel is the strongest piece of evidence
for this being a real phenomenon.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
I know that this is an answer that a lot
of people aren’t going to love because I think that
you know where we are, which I understand. We’re looking
for hard data right because we want to be able
to prove this. We want to be able to say
scientifically conclusively that this thing is real. But I think
that where we are right now, honestly, what the best
piece of evidence is is anecdotal. And I think that
(06:50):
for a lot of people, like anecdotes have become this
dirty word where it’s like, well, it’s just anecdotal, so
you can’t prove it, so it means nothing except that
like there are a lot of different kinds of science,
like we’re trying. I don’t think that we should expect
to hold every single field to the same standard of
science that we hold, say like physics, where we have
(07:11):
this like very very hard science that’s like very provable
and very like very easy to calculate and you know,
comes down to like mathematical equations, because that’s just not
how everything works. There’s other kinds of science. There’s psychology
and anthropology, and these are the kinds of science that
we use when we’re trying to deal with things that
can’t be broken down into an equation like species and
(07:32):
humans and cultures and that sort of thing. We can
study those things, still not in as precise and replicable
of a way as we can study, say the laws
of physics, but that doesn’t mean that there’s nothing that
we can know about them. And the way that we
go about that in these other kind of softer science
(07:53):
fields is that we collect, you know, all of this
anecdotal data together. And it’s not that you accept every
single anecdote or every single piece of data as being
like absolute and you don’t question it. What you do,
if you’re responsible, is you take all of the anecdotes,
and you take all of this data and you put
it together and you look for patterns that emerge, and
(08:16):
then you try to understand what it is that you’re
dealing with from that. And I think that that’s completely valid,
and I think that something really dangerous is happening in
our culture where we feel like we can’t rely on
what other human beings are telling us about their experience,
about what they know. That doesn’t mean that people don’t lie.
It doesn’t mean that there’s not people aren’t mistaken, or
(08:36):
that they aren’t frauds. But we’re to the point where
we don’t even trust our own experience when these things happen,
because we’ve decided it can’t be it can’t be real.
And so but I think the fact that you know,
if you go back hundreds of years, thousands of years,
we have accounts that very much look like the UFO phenomenon,
or you know, interactions with some kind of a non
human intelligence that follow the same shape and pattern and
(08:59):
kind of like structure of these encounters that people are
having now tells us that there’s something there. We don’t
know what it is. We have to figure that out still,
But that to me, is probably the most compelling piece
of evidence.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
I agree. I don’t know why we suddenly discount eyewitness testimony.
We have a lot of people that have made these claims.
Why all of a sudden are these people not credible?
And I don’t think that that’s fair. And we have
a huge number of them. We don’t need all of
them to be credible, we just need one. So keeping
that in mind, it makes me feel that there is
(09:35):
some substantial evidence for this. And there’s other cases like
when you were saying that, I was thinking that, you know,
when they caught these priests doing things to choir boys
and whatever at the church, what kind of evidence did
they have for that other than anecdotal witnesses or these
guys claiming this. There’s no video, there’s no proof, there’s
no anything. But that was enough to catch all these guys.
(09:59):
So we need to a little more fair in this
realm as well. You’re listening to Beyond Contact on the
iHeartRadio on Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We
(10:27):
are back on Beyond Contact. We’re talking with Kelly Chase,
and Kelly, I wanted to ask you, is there a
case or two that really pushed you over the edge,
that made you go, you know what, this is really
credible to me.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, I mean, I think early on one of the
cases that really stuck out to me was the nineteen
fifty two flap over Washington, DC. Just the fact that
this is something that was documented in newspapers around the world.
There’s no real way to argue that something didn’t happen
there because it was witnessed over multiple hours of these
(11:00):
things flying over Washington, d C. There were craft that
were spotted hovering over our Congress for hours at a time,
and this was witnessed by literally, you know, thousands, if
not more people, to the extent that our government had
to have the biggest press conference that they had had
since the end of World War Two to go and
(11:20):
tell people that like, there was nothing to see here.
But their explanation never made any kind of sense, because
this was, like I said in one of her multiple
hours and also over multiple days, they were scrambling fighter
jets to go and get these things, to try to
figure out what they were, and to pretend as though
our entire military was flummixed and just sort of tricked
(11:44):
by some like weird you know, radar data or something
that was incorrect, which in no way explains all the
people who are seeing these things on the ground. You
can’t see, you know, radar artifacts from the ground. I
think that that in and of itself, you know, shows
you that there’s something really interesting going on there. And
so that one really early on for me, was one
that really stuck out to me, cause I think it’s
(12:05):
really hard to say that something significant didn’t happen.
Speaker 5 (12:07):
So the weather balloon thing did not land for you,
is what you’re saying. The weather balloons does not seem
to be strong enough. I agree. So you are a
non believer in all of this, all of the UFO things.
You in fact, were an atheist until about three years ago.
And after all this research, when did you get to
the point where you believe this type of thing really
(12:29):
was happening? And then how did that affect your world paradigm?
And does it change the nature of your whole view
of reality? How was that?
Speaker 4 (12:37):
You know?
Speaker 1 (12:37):
That’s such a great question, and it’s been as I
suspect it is for a lot of people. It’s been complex,
Like it’s really hard to say exactly at what point
the flip totally like the switch totally flipped for me,
because I think that there was a point where, like
I recognized that there was something to the UFO phenomenon
and got really obsessed. But over time, you know, it
(13:01):
takes time for your mind to kind of open up
to these things. And I think a lot of people
have the experience that when they start, they’re like, Okay,
clearly there’s something going on here, and I’m going to
look into it, but I’m not going to consider abductions
or I’m not going to consider, you know, telepathic content.
Everybody draws their line in the sand somewhere else in
terms of like what they’re willing to consider and what
(13:22):
they’re own what they’re not willing to consider. And so
over the last few years, I think that I have
had that goalpost continually move as based on what I’ve read,
based on my own experiences, and also really based on
getting to know other experiencers and understanding that there are
(13:42):
extraordinarily intelligent, very highly functioning, completely non crazy people who
have some stories that sound very very crazy. And so
I think in a lot of ways, it’s been it’s
been a slow process having this kind of a paradigm
shift in your life. It happens slowly and all at
once kind of at the same time. It’s hard to
(14:04):
like point to an exact moment to say, like that
was the moment that I fully recognized that this was real,
because even after having my own profound experiences, it takes
a process of integration, right, and to even recognize that
something happened to yourself. But over time, the way that
that’s really changed my perspective on the world is that
I think that I’ve just come to realize that there’s
(14:27):
a lot more to human experience than we’re being told,
and that those parts that we’ve sort of amputated from
our human experience and that we don’t recognize and that
we don’t recognize as valid are actually some of the
most important parts of what it means to be a human.
Because once you start to let those things in and
you start to consider them, and you start to take
(14:47):
your own anomaloust experiences seriously, it opens your world up
and you start to think differently, and you start to
care more about you know, not just about this subject,
but about being a good part and what your impact
is on the world, and like the things that matter
and like loving your family and these like really basic
things suddenly become come to the forefront in your life,
(15:09):
which is a kind of a counterintuitive thing that happens.
But I know it’s not just me. This happens to
almost everyone I talk to you it gets involved in
this subject. So it’s been a really it’s been the
most incredible experience of my life, to be honest, and
I’m just so grateful to have been on this journey.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
Yeah, it’s interesting you mentioned that about it’s intelligent people
that have had these experiences that you’ve talked with. When
we hear the experts and the people that the psychiatrists
and psychologists who’ve talked to these people, they say, it’s
all walks of life, from big name celebrities to doctors, lawyers,
the works. It’s right across the board. It doesn’t discriminate,
(15:47):
it doesn’t discern who’s having these experiences, which is fascinating,
and I wanted to ask you that how have you
seen how these experiences have tended to affect other people’s lives.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Yeah, I mean it’s really fascinating because I think because
of the nature of my podcast, where it’s for people
who are newer to the topic, that I end up
hearing from a lot of people who are new to it,
and then I get to sort of see them on
their own journey. And you know, I actually just got
a text message this morning from somebody that I had
talked two months ago, who, as a result of getting
into this topic, started asking these bigger questions about, like,
(16:22):
you know, not just what is the UFO phenomenon, but
who am I? And why am I here? And what
is my purpose and ended up making a whole life
change and now is working for an organization that raises
money for climate change initiatives. And he texted me today
just to say like, thank you, and I’m so feeling
so fulfilled in my new work and all of that,
which which I don’t really even feel like I can
(16:42):
take credit for. I feel like there’s something about the
phenomenon itself that when you engage with it, it transforms
your life in a way that is really profound. And
so I think seeing that process play out, and I’ve
seen this process play out probably hundreds of times now
with people that I’ve met, and that to me is
probably the most fulfilling and exciting part of this work
and why I keep doing it.
Speaker 5 (17:04):
That was a very positive answer. I guess I was
expecting you to say how oftentimes these sort of experiences
can also ruin people’s lives. I often hear of people
who have had a let’s say, an abduction experience or
some sort of experience like that, they end up divorced,
they end up losing their job. It can be very
difficult for many of these people, right.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Oh, absolutely absolutely, And I think what’s so important is
that these conversations and like the community that we’re all
building together is so important because when people don’t have
when something like this happens and you don’t have a community,
and you don’t have any context, and you don’t have
anywhere to take this thing that happened to you, it
can be extraordinarily destabilizing. It can be extraordinarily isolating. It
(17:48):
can you know, rip apart families and people lost their jobs,
people have lost their lives over this. And so you know,
that’s why I think it’s so important that we continue
to have these conversations just talk about it, but that
wese form communities and we start to also form like
frameworks for integration, for understanding what might be going on here,
(18:08):
so that people have a place to talk about it
in a way to talk about it, because I think
that when we’re able to integrate these things and we’re
not just having to reject them outright or hide them
or like keep it as our dirty little secret, it
can have this like really beautifully transformational effect, Whereas when
(18:28):
we have to bury it, it has this like corrosive effect.
And so I think that that’s why, you know, that’s
why I’m so passionate about this work.
Speaker 5 (18:37):
No doubt. I think that now that things are a
little bit more opened up than they were, say, thirty
forty fifty years ago, that there are places for them
to go, there are places for them to congregate and
share their stories. I’m sure that gives them a lot
of satisfaction and comfort, which is wonderful. When we come back,
we’re going to talk to Kelly about how she shifts
through all of this different misinformation and disinformation to get
(19:01):
to what’s really going on out there. You are listening
to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back on Beyond Contact
(19:34):
and I’m talking with Kelly Chase right now. Kelly, I
wanted to ask you that how do you navigate this
immense amount of material that’s out there. There’s a lot
of misinformation, there’s a lot of disinformation, there’s a lot
of speculation. How do you navigate all this to get
to what your version of what you think is happening
is happening.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Yeah, it really is tough. And I think that kind
of the first part of navigating this is having a
really deep humility. And I think that that for me,
that came about pretty naturally, just because I had such
a profound shift in my worldview. Like you said, before
I was in I didn’t believe in any of this stuff.
I didn’t believe in anything wo I didn’t even believe
(20:15):
in God. And so to have had my worldview shift
so profoundly, it kind of gives you this natural humility
because you realize how that you’ve been wrong before and
that you could be wrong again, and that you’re only
ever kind of one data point away from having to
like scrap it all and start over. And so I
think that like staying in that place is probably the
(20:36):
most important part. And it’s hard to do because we
as humans really want to be certain, like we really
want to feel like we have the right answer, and
it’s hard to kind of stay in that space of
humility and saying like, I don’t actually know, And so
a lot of what I do is I will I
will read just about anything on this topic, and I’ve
actually will go to the point where I intentionally read
(20:58):
things that people are like, oh, that since a scam
artist or that’s trash, you shouldn’t read that. You know,
maybe I’ll feel that way after I’ve read it too,
but I think that like you at least have to
give it a shot, right, But for the most part,
I try to take in as much information as I
can from as many different sources as possible, and to
try to connect the dots where where I can, and
to notice patterns where they emerge. But there is always
(21:21):
sort of this decision tree thing going on in my
brain where you know, if you don’t if I don’t
actually know something is true, which is for most of
this subject is like most of the things about it,
you can’t really know if it’s true or not. You
kind of have to hold that intention and say like, Okay,
so if this is true, then these other things are
(21:41):
also likely true. But if it’s not true, then those
things probably aren’t true. In this other set of things,
is probably true, and so there’s this kind of like
web that’s created of like all of these different contingencies,
and so like, I can’t say that I know for
sure that I’m getting the best information or that my
ideas are the best ideas. All I can do is
(22:03):
try to stay like as intellectually honest as possible about
what I actually know and what is just sort of
like an idea that sounds right or that I like,
or that maybe connects these dots in a way that’s satisfying,
but that might not actually be the case. And so
you know, I think there’s very little that I can
say about the UFO phenomenon that I can say for
(22:24):
sure is I know to be a fact. And I
think that you just sort of have to to sit
in that place and allow yourself to know that you
don’t know, and that allows you to kind of remain
flexible and skeptical enough in your thinking.
Speaker 5 (22:38):
I think that’s really really critically important. It certainly is
from my view. I feel that the more people say
that they know what’s going on, the less they know
what’s going on, because it’s just not it’s an unknown
that’s what we’re dealing with here. But I do like
to get closer to it, and I do like when
I have corroborating evidence, when I have multiple witnesses seeing
(22:59):
the same thing, saying the same thing. Obviously, these one
off cases, it doesn’t mean they’re not true, it doesn’t
mean that person didn’t have that experience. But it is
harder for me and certainly people outside this community to
accept those things because that’s that’s a wild story, you know.
But some of these, like the doctor David Jacob’s work,
you know, he sees the same story over and over
(23:22):
from all walks of life. That’s pretty compelling no matter
who you are. That’s a data set, and people disregard
that data. We were talking about the evidence earlier. What
about the data that people like him have collected. I’ve
got two thousand people from every walk of life saying
that this happened to him, and nine hundred of them
are word for word. That’s something to me, just a
(23:43):
normal rational way of thinking is like, well, wait a minute,
what something’s going on. I don’t know that it’s alien,
I don’t know what it is, but something right. Let
me ask you this, have you noticed a change? Not
you personally, but if you noticed a change when you
were researching these books and things in the overall thinking
in this area with respect to extraterrestrial beings in the
(24:03):
way it was perceived like in the forties and fifties
and then the seventies, eighties, and then you know today,
like we’ve seen kind of an evolution, right, how has
that changed for you? Have you noticed?
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:15):
I think the evolution of how it’s changed in our
kind of cultural perspective is fascinating and really important to
understand because I think people tend to think that like
whatever their initial impression is of UFOs, just from what
they’ve gotten from the media or whatever they know casually,
is sort of the whole picture, and it’s really it’s
really not. And you know, going back to you know,
(24:35):
the late nineteen forties, you know when this sort of
modern UFO phenomenon kind of came into prominence. Back then,
it wasn’t it wasn’t assumed it was aliens at all. Actually,
that was like one of many hypotheses, including that, you know,
it was perhaps Soviet technology. And there’s also a lot
of people who thought maybe these were coming from you know,
(24:55):
the inner Earth, from like a hollow Earth kind of
scenario that were all kinds of different ideas of what
could have been going on. And I’ve kind of made
a habit of when I go into use bookstores, I’ll
buy like any UFO book that was written before nineteen
seventy five, because I don’t care what it is or
who or who wrote it, because you know, back then
it was before we kind of had these more solidified
(25:17):
ideas of what was going on. And it’s really fascinating
how differently people thought about it back then, because then
you move forward and we have you sort of have
like the beginning of the Contact d movement, but a
lot of those contact e’s were talking to entities that
looked human or appeared to be human or near human,
you know, kind of the Space Brothers situation. But then
(25:38):
the Space Brothers kind of like disappeared, and you know,
after sort of the era of Betty and Barney Hill,
we suddenly get into more of you know, abductions, and
sort of the Grays began to become more of the
kind of arc type of what we were dealing with here.
And so even like the face of who we imagined
to be or who actually was inside of the UFOs
has has changed over time, and I find that really
(26:02):
fascinating how we’ve kind of changed our perspective on who
these people are. Like before we thought they were coming
from from Venus and now they’re coming from like Zeta
Reticuli or something like that, and those things seem to
align with our own technological awareness and our awareness of
the universe around us and what’s Yeah.
Speaker 5 (26:20):
But to me, doesn’t this hurt the whole credibility of it?
Because if it’s real, why wouldn’t the first abductee or
contact ee say is coming from Zata Reticuli. Why did
they say it’s coming from Mars Because they were influenced
by movies or culture or whatever, And now all of
a sudden, they’re coming from this other star system. That
is something that I think hurts the credibility of these claims.
(26:43):
And it’s like in Whitley Strieber’s book where he talks
about cases of way back, way way back, where people
told stories of little beings coming down from the trees
and they called them fairies and they were short, bald,
big eyes, almond shaped eyes. You know, it was through
their lens that they were using. And they call them
(27:04):
ferries or they call them gnomes or whatever. They had
their terms for them. And then you read a passage
from an abductee case in the nineties and it’s very
very similar to something written a thousand years earlier, but
we see it through the lens of space age technology
and travel through the universe.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
So yeah, absolutely, I mean, I think what’s I think
what’s really interesting about the phenomenon itself is that it
it does seem to be inherently deceptive, Like there’s something
about it that undermines it, Like the phenomenon undermines itself
that like undermines its own credibility. There are things about
(27:42):
it that that just don’t make sense. And it does
seem that when we encounter these things, we tend to
encounter things in a way that fits with our current
cultural paradigm. You know, even going back to like the
airship flaps of that, you know, eighteen nineties, or you
had these like weird dirigible looking things like propellers and
weird things like that. You know, that was what people
(28:04):
were seeing in the sky. And so you know, what
is that It’s hard to tell in it. To me,
it hints at a lot of things that are potentially
really interesting, like something that could potentially pack our perception,
or something that is intentionally presenting itself to us in
a certain way that we can maybe that we can understand,
or that is maybe intentionally trying to hide its own source.
(28:25):
And then when you mix that up with government misinformation
and everything else that happens, you kind of have this
like absurd tapestry of these stories and it’s really hard
to make sense of, like what exactly is the reality
behind these things? What is that? And I don’t think
we have any kind of a good answer for that.
Speaker 5 (28:41):
I agree, and I think if there’s some government involvement,
they want it that way. They would like it to
be a mess. They want us to not know what’s
going on. Speaking of the government, when we come back,
we’re going to ask Kelly what her thoughts are on
government disclosure or the Big D disclosure. You’re listening to
Beyond Contact on iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal
Podcast Network. We are back on Beyond Contact with Captain Ron.
(29:24):
I’m talking to Kelly Chase, and now we’re going to
talk about government disclosure. Kelly, even if our government makes
this announcement, everyone seems to have their own definition of
what quote unquote disclosure is and what it’ll take for
them to believe that this is real. I do think
on this issue, most people have made up their mind.
They don’t typically say, well, I’m open. They don’t. It’s
(29:46):
like in today’s politics, the vast majority of people are
dug in. It doesn’t matter what their candidate says, doesn’t
matter what he does, They’ve made up their mind. They’re
voting for this guy. I find the same thing here
in the UFO community. We get a new, great documentary
with all this new witnesses that came forward, and people
inside the community get even more excited and they feel like, wow,
(30:06):
there’s even more evidence to support my belief. But people
outside the community just dismiss it. Like everything else. Very
rarely is there something that moves the needle or sways
people from one side to the other. We did have
that back in twenty seventeen with the New York Times
article and the videos and all of that. That was
truly a watershed moment for this community. But since then
(30:27):
I’ve seen very little that’s actually made a difference in
people’s core beliefs. So much so, in fact, that you
start to realize that disclosure can mean so many things.
For some people, I don’t even know why they need
to have this formal disclosure anyway. I’m not sure we
need to hear it from the government for it to
be real. For others, it would take the President of
the United States to say this is real, show the craft,
(30:50):
show the bodies, and then some would still not believe it.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
What do you think, Yeah, I mean, I think we’re
in this really interesting space with this because one thing
that the government has done really successfully, and something that
I think is a downside of the disclosure movement in
a way, is that we were in this position where
we feel like we are we’re sitting here like with
(31:14):
our handout, waiting for the government to tell us what’s
going on here, and that puts in a lot of
ways that we’re like giving up our own agency because
we’re relying on somebody else to tell us what’s true.
And the reality of the UFO phenomenon is that it’s everywhere.
There have been, you know, millions of sightings around the
(31:35):
world by all kinds of people in all walks of life.
And sure, maybe the government has some craft and maybe
even bodies in some like underground bunker somewhere, but what
they can’t do is lock up the UFO phenomenon underground,
Like they can’t own it, they can’t possess it, they
can’t keep it from us. And there’s absolutely nothing that’s
(31:55):
keeping everyday people from going out and investigating this on
their own and deciding what they think that you can’t
it’s part of the nature of our reality. It’s a
very integral part of human experience that we can see
going back thousands of years in various ways and in
various forms, and so like, this isn’t something that they
can keep from us. And so as much as I
support disclosure, and I do think that like fundamentally, if
(32:19):
there is such thing as an inalienable right, I think
that the right to understand the nature of our reality
is perhaps one of the most fundamental and so like,
of course, I you know, support transparency and disclosure, but
I do worry that like that has become the only
conversation in the UFO community that at all, Like, if
it doesn’t come from the government, if it doesn’t have
(32:40):
that stamp of approval, if there isn’t some military you know,
video that has like a strict provenance, then we don’t
have like permission to consider it, and I just kind
of like reject that idea, and I hope that we’re
able to reclaim ufology as something separate from the disclosure movement.
Speaker 5 (32:57):
I agree one hundred and fifty percent is exactly right.
I don’t know why we need that. That’s why they
put out these nonsense things like from Arrow, oh there’s
nothing to see here, even though we’ve talked directly with
people who have given them evidence and then they say
there is no evidence. It would have been much stronger
for Arrow to come out and just say, you know,
there is some things we can’t explain, or some things
(33:19):
are unknown, but we don’t see any direct positive something
like that, instead of just a blanket no, not now,
I don’t even trust you at all. It just made
no sense to me. The thing is, this is such
a complex issue. It’s so much more than I think
most people realize. It’s hard because unlike other topics, we
can’t know the truth, or at least the whole truth.
(33:41):
All of this is an unknown and we’re just trying
to get a little more understanding. It’s not like if
we find an artifactor, we find something, we can go, oh,
here’s the answer, as in certain discoveries made in other
disciplines you find the answer. Let’s say tomorrow morning, you
and I find a craft buried in your backyard. Number One,
we wouldn’t believe it. Number Two, If we got it
(34:03):
checked out and we prove that this metal can’t be
made here on earth, the vast majority of people would
still not believe it. Even then, all of this, all
it really does is open up more questions. Who built this,
where are they from, Where are they, why are they here?
What happened to them? It’s not like any of these
are simple answers, you know what I’m saying?
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Oh? Absolutely, I mean I think that I think that
it would be difficult even if they if the President
got on TV and said UFOs are real and we
have bodies, and they rolled out the bodies, I think
it would be really difficult even for people like you
and me to accept that, like that that was real,
because like, how do you know? And it seems kind
of crazy. We’re and we’re also at this kind of
(34:46):
crisis point. I think is a culture in terms of
the extent to which we trust kind of the government
and legacy institutions and like authority in general. I think
that people are just kind of catching on to the
fact that, like, not just with the UFO phomenon, but
with a lot of other things that we have been
intentionally misled. And so the president can get on television
(35:07):
and say almost anything, and half of the country is
going to believe him, and the other half is going
to say absolutely not. And so we don’t have a
good place, like a good We can’t even really rely
on the government for this sort of like consensus understanding
of what our reality is anymore anyways, And so you know,
I don’t know that our end goal even really should
be the president getting on television and confirming this one
(35:27):
way or another, because I don’t know that that’s going
to be helpful.
Speaker 5 (35:32):
It’s an interesting proposition. And then you know, we have
these things about the bodies they found in Brazil and Peru,
they got these mummies. Well, obviously most of us immediately
dismissed that as nonsense and silly, and now it looks
like there’s something to it. I don’t think that as aliens.
I don’t think most people think it’s quote unquote alien
off planet. But they may in fact be real biological
(35:52):
beings of some kind. They could be you know, little
monkeys or some sort of thing that we even maybe
another you know, branch of humanity in some way, but
they may in fact be real. It looks like, now
there might be something to it, but immediately we dismissed that.
As soon as I heard that, I just literally physically
laughed because they kind of made it sound like they
(36:13):
were alien in nature, you know, and they have the
big heads and the whole thing. So of course, you know,
that’s our knee jerk reaction. And I’m knee deep in
this stuff. You can imagine how the rest of the
world heard of it. They were just like, oh, that’s silliness.
So it’s going to be very hard to overcome these things.
And I think even if the president comes out like
you’re saying, I don’t know if that’s a good thing
(36:34):
or a bad thing. I mean that the whole world
would change, of course. And then what if a president
from another country comes out. Does it have the same impact.
How many people in America would change their belief Because
the Brazilian president came out and said we have alien
bodies and craft. I think that’s a low number. You
just said that. If our president said a lot of
(36:55):
people wouldn’t believe. Imagine if another country discloses, because this
is a worldwide phenomenon. You’re right that they have recovered
craft supposedly, and if they do, they’ll probably be able
to protect that intellectual property in that technology. But they can’t,
like you’re saying, cover up this phenomenon because it’s happening
(37:15):
to citizens of the world. Throughout the world, people are
dealing with this. They’re doing it firsthand and directly, not
through a government or anything like that. So the governments
of the world can’t really truly stop this. As far
as we know, We’re going to have to stop there
for today. We will be back next week with part
two of this interview with Kelly Chase. Thanks so much, Kelly,
(37:37):
I really enjoyed this conversation. I appreciate all your information.
It’s really fantastic. Thanks again, and thank you for listening
to Beyond Contact. You can follow me Captain Ron on
Twitter and Instagram at CID underscore Captain Ron. Stay connected
by checking out Contact intheesert dot com. Stay open minded
and rational as we explore the unknown right here on
(37:58):
the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal Podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
am Paranormal podcast Network, make sure and check out all
our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going to
iHeartRadio dot com
