Captain Ron speaks with investigative journalist Ross Coulthart about his transformation from skeptic to firm believer in global UFO crash retrieval programs.
Captain Ron (01:11):
Welcome to be on Contact. I’m Captain Ron, and today
we have the pleasure of speaking with mister Ross. Colhart
Ross is an Australian based international investigative journalist, filmmaker and
author of six books. He also has over thirty five
years in the broadcast, television and newspaper journalism. He is
currently the senior special investigation correspondent for the News Nation
(01:32):
TV network, where he presents the hugely popular show Reality Check.
He also hosts a popular podcast with Bryce Abel called
need to Know, Hi Ross. How you doing good?
Speaker 5 (01:43):
Ay Ron? How are you mate?
Speaker 4 (01:45):
I am terrific. So you’re going to be joining us
for the first time this year at Contact in the Desert.
We’re really happy to have you. It’s going to be great.
Speaker 5 (01:51):
Yeah, I’m quite excited to come along. Actually, I’m a
friend with a whole lot of Australians who’ve made a
point of going to Contact but quite a few years,
and they went last year and I was gallivanting around
Arizona shooting a story from News Nation while they were
doing that last year. So I’m excited to be finally
coming to Contact in the Desert this year.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
You’re gonna love it. It’s so much fun. And I
love that we have people literally from all over the world,
as you said, people coming from Australia. We had from Belgium.
Last year. It’s really kind of cool. You know. I
want to share with you first off that you know,
in twenty twenty three, our very first year of owning
the conference was the year you broke the David Grush story,
(02:32):
and in fact, that happened during our event. We literally
stopped our conference and all piled into one giant room
and watched it unfold together live. Danny Sheehan and Richard
Dolan went up and they shared their thoughts after you
guys were done. It was a great moment for us,
you know, another classic contact in the desert moment, and
(02:52):
you know that’s become part of history for the disclosure efforts,
and it was fun being with that group right when
this unfolded. Looking back for you now two years later,
what was that moment like for you? Were you aware
of the magnitude of this.
Speaker 5 (03:07):
Look, I guess I was. I mean, I you know,
it’s very rare that you get somebody of Dave Grush’s seniority, stature,
insider knowledge, security clearances coming up publicly and saying what
he said. I’ve been disappointed, though, to be honest with you,
at the lackluster response from Congress. And I know we
(03:28):
make a lot of excuses for congressional committees that they’re
constrained by resources, but I think what we’ve hit is
inertia in the Congress, and that’s why I’m actually quite
heartened that David is joining the staff of Representative Eric Berlson,
who’s a particularly sharp Congressman on this UAP issue, and
who I know having David on board is going to
(03:51):
push things down the field a lot more than has
been happening to date. I think David would be the
first to admit privately and publicly that he’s been disappointed
that they’re hasn’t been greater momentum inside the Congress since
his allegations, and particularly since the allegations were backed up
with the other interview I did with Jake Barber and
members of his team earlier this year. There’s a kind
(04:13):
of a political inertia in Congress. And I don’t think
it’s a conspiracy, ron. I don’t think somebody is pulling
the strings behind the scenes telling them not to pursue
this issue. I honestly think that we just haven’t sounded
the plaxons loud enough for the people in Congress to
realize how significant an issue this is.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
You know, to be honest, rass a few months ago,
up until a few months ago, I honest to God
thought Grush already spoke in a skiff because he had
talked about willing to do that, and it never happened,
and I heard that that’s going to be happening hopefully
in April.
Speaker 5 (04:50):
This has just so you know, he has given extraordinary
details in essentially a skiff facility to the Senate Intelligence
Committee and to the Senate Armed Services Committee and their
respective HAS committee. That evidence has been given, and more importantly,
it was also given to the Intelligence Community Inspector General,
(05:10):
a guy called Tom Monheim as well. People in Congress
cannot say they do not know what David Grush alleges.
He has told them where to go to find the
Legacy program, literally, what cave to look in, what code
name to look under, and what person’s in charge of it.
He has given that detail, and that has been given
(05:32):
in a securest gift. The big problem is political will.
There was considerable inertia under the Democrats. Frankly, I think
the Biden administration was allowing itself to be overly influenced
by the intelligence and defense community, and there’s far too
much influence through the National Security Council, which basically controls
(05:55):
the president’s advice on national security issues. And I think
that the the big question at the moment is what’s
going to happen with President Trump? Is he going to
show leadership, ethical, moral, political leadership on an issue that
I know many people in the Republican side and indeed
on the Democrat side in the huss and the Senate
(06:16):
want to see him show. They’re just waiting to see
for the puffs of white smoke from the White House
Vatican to see whether or not this is going to
get the official approval. With everything else on his plate
at the moment, is the President going to buy a
fight with the Pentagon and the intelligence community on what
is the biggest secret of all?
Speaker 4 (06:36):
You know? One of the problems people had with the
testimony of David Grush was all the good questions he
had to understandably say, I can’t talk about that in
an open session. Is that frustrating to you when you’re
interviewing these guys that they get close to something but
they can’t tell you because it’s classified. You get like
within inches of the answer you want. Is that tough?
Speaker 5 (06:58):
Well? It is when I already know the answer, because
I’m already talking to people in the Legacy program who
actually told me about David Grush and told me that
there was this guy from the UAP task Force doing
in the investigation at the time, and they basically, if
you like, facilitated my knowledge of him and he of me.
And there is briefing me. So a lot of the
(07:20):
things David can’t talk about I know, but he can’t
reveal them because to do so would be a breach
of his national security host. And I know a lot
of people there’s a lot of people who say to
me on UAP social media, they say, look, you know,
just get Grush to spill all you know, reveal all
you know you know, and the bottom line is people,
(07:41):
it’s kind of an old fashioned idea. But in journalism,
professional journalism that I’m trained in, you do not act
irresponsibly by revealing things that might be national security sensitive.
We do have perhaps not a legal obligation perhaps, but
certainly an ethical obligation to ensure or that we don’t
compromise the names and identities of ongoing intelligence operatives, people
(08:05):
who are putting their lives on the line to protect
this country and to make sure that people are safe
in their homes. It sounds old fashioned, but I do
believe that there are technologies, that there are people, good
people in the national security and Defense and Intelligence establishment.
They would genuinely sit down, as they have done privately
(08:25):
with me, and make an argument that this is being
kept secret for a very good reason. And I don’t
buy that reason. They believe that to reveal even the
existence of a non human intelligence engaging with this planet
would be a slippery slope, that to reveal that would
then compel revelations of what the United States has been
doing behind the scenes. The big nightmare, the big argument
(08:49):
that I get from people in the intelligence community is
that if we reveal this big secret, if we tell
the public that, yes, there is this secret program that
was authorized by a president seventy years ago, that to
do that would basically compromise that program and allow our
foreign adversaries some kind of strategic advantage. Their argument is
(09:11):
that doing that would essentially blow all that. I don’t
buy that, but I can understand why there is that constraint.
And I guess when I listen to people complaining that
David can’t spill his guts and tell all, I don’t
think they understand how he operates within the national security constraints.
He’d be in jail immediately if he revealed the full
(09:33):
extent of what he knows, and I don’t know. I
might be in jail, I’m not sure. But more importantly,
I feel an ethical obligation to make sure that I
protect what might be national security sensitive. These guys are
going to have to be squeezed very, very slowly into
a begrudging admission that yeah, sure, you know we have
been hiding this, but we’ve been doing it, we believe
(09:55):
for good reasons, and there have been crimes committed, by
the way, terrible crimes committed, including murder. I believe that
have tried to protect the secrecy of this whole program.
But generally, I really do want to emphasize I’m quite
struck by the number of people I’ve spoken to who
do passionately believe that there’s a good reason for why
(10:17):
this legacy program is being kept secret, and they do
see us on the fringe, basically baying for disclosure, as
an annoying minority group who need to be put in
our place. But I don’t think they quite understand the
notions of separation of powers and congressional oversight. And I
think eventually they will be dragged kicking and screaming to
(10:40):
the altar and there will be a happy marriage where
this all becomes very very public.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Gosh, I really hope that really does happen, and we’re
all obviously hoping for that. When we come back, we’re
going to talk more with Ross about how his views
on the UFO subject has changed over the years as
he gained more insights. You’re listening to Beyond Contact on
the iHeart Radio Coast to Coast am Paranormal podcast network.
(11:20):
We are back on Beyond Contact. I’m Captain Ron. We’re
talking to Ross Colhart today.
Speaker 5 (11:25):
Ross.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
We think you’re a perfect fit for Contact in the
Desert because we have a very rational approach to this subject,
and you seem very genuine in your approach. You really
began looking at this in earnest from a skeptical viewpoint, right.
Speaker 5 (11:39):
Absolutely, I said hat. I finished working with sixty Minutes
Australia in twenty eighteen, and I was thinking to myself,
what’s something that I can investigate that I can write
a book about and live in quiet, peaceful retirement in
the hills outside Sydney and just take my time writing
a gentle book that explodes a few myths. And I
(12:00):
like contrarian stories. I like finding stories that people accept
as a truism and then go in and find the
real story. And it always struck me this UFO stuff
was total bullshit, and I was going to come in
find out that this was indeed what I suspected there was,
which was an American black secret program with advanced aerospace technology,
(12:21):
and there was nothing to do with aliens. And there
was a moment where I reached out to somebody I’d
met in Afghanistan in an intelligence capacity who facilitated a
meeting for me with somebody in a George Town bar
from the intelligence community. They asked me what I was
interested in, and I said, look, I’m really interested in
(12:41):
writing a book about UFOs to prick the bubble, you know.
I mean, I suspect it’s this Aurora, you know, this
spyplane that was referred to in defense literature right back
in an American aviation journal, right back in the eighties.
And the person sort of paused, looked across the bar
at me, and shook his head and basically said, no, Ross,
(13:06):
it’s real. And my life hasn’t been the same since.
And I basically said to him, what do you mean
it’s real? And he said, there are aliens, you know,
this is real, And this was at the time when
Christopher Mellon was in the very early stages of making
a decision about what to do with the various gimbal
(13:29):
Tic Tac videos. It was very funny because at that
particular time of that conversation I was having, I was
still working for sixty Minutes Australia and I pitched a story.
I approached Chris Mellon because this source told me about Mellon,
and I asked him, could we do an interview with
you about this about you know, your push for transparency,
because I thought it was a cool story that there
(13:50):
was this guy who’d worked at the very top levels
of the Defense Department basically saying that, you know, he
thought there needed to be something disclosed and to do
the interview. And I remember feeling such a sense of
despondency because my executive producer at Australian sixty Minutes pulled
the pin on the story the night before I was
(14:10):
due to fly, and when I asked them why, they
basically said, look, I guess I’m really worried about embarrassment blowback.
There’s so much stigma associated with this subject. I’m just
worried we’re going to get laughed at. And I said, really,
I said, you understand that Chris Mellan, the person we’re
going to interview, as a former deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense,
(14:32):
he’s a very senior person inside the Defense Department. And
she went, Nah, I’m sorry, we’re not doing it. And
that’s the stigma that we’re up against. It’s not a conspiracy,
it’s not men in black going around telling jurnos that
they can’t do the story. So yeah, I mean, I
did start out as a skeptic, and I found myself
(14:52):
slowly moving towards the realization that this was real. And
the big moment for me came when I met Nat Kobitz,
who at the time sadly was slowly dying of cancer
in his family home in Baltimore, and that I’d been
told about him. I’d actually also read about him under
(15:12):
a non diplum in a book written by I called
Gordon Novelle, which referred to a guy matching that’s description
working in the Defense Department meeting with Gordon and discussing
certain aspects of the legacy UAP retrieval program. And so
I approached this guy not really expecting that he was
(15:33):
going to talk to me, and I used the strategy
I’ve used with everybody who’s in the program, which is
writing an old fashioned letter in some cases, because I
was in the States a lot physically dropping those letters
at letterboxes of private homes of individuals I know or
suspect briefed into the program. And I had a lot
(15:55):
of success with people in the program reaching out to
me who respected, if you’ll like, the spycraft that I
showed by not using electronic means to communicate, all of
which are monitored for people in the program. And one
of the people who reached out to me was nat Kovitz.
And I can reveal that because sadly, within six months
(16:15):
of me and him starting to talk, he passed away
from cancer. But literally in his last few days, he
was connecting me with people, enthusiastically putting me onto people,
and there was a moment where he flatly admitted to
me that the program was real, that he’d been briefed
into the fact that the United States had retrieved non
(16:36):
human craft, and he thought the public had a right
to know about it, and he couldn’t as a scientist.
In fact, as the former chief geek, if you, like
Chief R and D guy for the US Navy, he
couldn’t think of any solid reason for why it should
continue to be kept secret. I rather suspect that, like
a lot of secrets, this is one that’s just stayed
(16:58):
secret because it is kind of the way things were
for the last sixty or seventy years. And I’ve had
the most extraordinary conversations with people in the program who
frankly admitted to me that they just don’t think there’s
any good reason anymore for the continued secrecy. But it’s
quite clear the people in charge, because they’re worried about blowback,
(17:20):
they’re worried about criminal prosecution, they’re worried about oversight investigations
and congressional fury. They’re just keeping it secret for as
long as they can.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
So is your best evidence these guys that come out
to you and you feel like they’re credible, therefore this
is real? Or do you have other evidence that you
feel make this compelling to you to be real?
Speaker 5 (17:40):
Well, obviously, as a journalist you balance witness evidence. Like
I’m a trained attorney, so I’ve worked as a lawyer myself,
and you get taught how to investigate and assess a
witness and test their credibility, and you use cross examination
skills evidence assessment to try and measure who they are,
(18:03):
what they’re saying is accurate, and you try and trip
them up, you try and find holes in their story.
And numerous times in the course of my research in
the last five to seven years, I’ve found people who
I think alias they’re either self a grandising Walter Mitty
types or were still their intelligence community moles, people who
(18:24):
are planted there to try and place false information with
somebody like myself. I’m certainly working very hard to get
quality video and sense or evidence, but the primary way
in which I elicit evidence is by talking to direct witnesses,
most of whom are still talking to me anonymously. There’s
(18:45):
just no way a lot of these people will feel
comfortable in the current environment. I strongly suspect at the moment,
unless there’s a greater public push for disclosure and transparency,
this secret will stay buried for a lot longer.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
That’s where I set You were talking about how the
rest of the world outside of our bubble really isn’t
you know into this? Do you think that it was
a really well designed disinformation type campaign in the beginning.
Let’s see in the nineteen forty seven when Roswell happened,
in all of these sightings were taking place. Do you
(19:19):
think that they just did a great job of making
this taboo subject and that the person’s crazy and that’s
stuck and it’s lasted seventy years, eighty years.
Speaker 5 (19:29):
Yeah, I mean, I think Hollywood’s played a role in this.
I mean, it’s quite astonishing. There’s a great book called
Silver Sources, which talks about the connections between those trying
to suppress this secret and Hollywood and Bryce Sable, who
I work with on Need to Know. He tells a
great story about how he and his colleague writing darks Guys,
(19:49):
the predecessor to X Files, a fantastic sci fi dark
noir story of series about aliens invading the planet. Basically,
they are approached by people from Navy Intelligence offering to
provide them with authentic information that would help them tell
their story more accurately. And I do think that kind
(20:10):
of seeding, if you like, has been going on in
Hollywood for much of the last sixty seventy years. There’s
been a threat narrative pushed, which is that aliens are
something to be feared, which is why we need our
brave military to defend ourselves against it. And more importantly,
an idea pushed that you know there are these nhi
they’re real, and I think that’s a slow softening up.
(20:32):
I do think it’s a deliberate policy by people in
power to begin preparing the public, because the other excuse
I get thrown most of the time by a lot
of people. They think you the public will freak if
you’re told there’s a non human intelligence. They think you’ll
just run around waving your hands in the air, and
that society will break down, religion will break down. And
(20:54):
I think that’s such a pedestrian, tired nineteen fifties, nineteen
sixties idea.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
I think it feels okay. I feel the world has
changed enough that it wouldn’t be that way. I agree
with you.
Speaker 5 (21:04):
I think they can tell you. I mean, I’ve got kids,
and I think both of them would embrace the idea
of a non human intelligence. And frankly, amongst young people
at the moment, the young millennials and X, I get
the feeling there’s almost a sense of hopelessness about how
the world is lurching towards environmental and political, socioeconomic catastrophe, wars, famine,
(21:26):
and nothing would be more unifying for more humanity than
the realization that we’re not alone in the universe and
that there is indeed a non human intelligence there’s actually
been engaging with this planet for many, many moons.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
When we come back, we’re going to talk more with
Ross about his interview with Jake Barber, the US Air
Force whistle blower who claims to have retrieved NHI craft
for the military. You’re listening to be on Contact on
the iHeart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.
(22:13):
We are back on Beyond Contact. I’m Captain Ron. We’re
speaking with Ross Coulhart. Ross. The next watershed level interview
in this area of disclosure was another one done by yourself,
and it was the one you did with Jake Barber recently.
What were your impressions of him and his account?
Speaker 5 (22:30):
Well, as you’ve probably divined, I was talking to mister
Barber a long time before he finally made the decision
to go public, while he was still working for the
intelligence agency that he was working for. And one of
the reasons that I am very persuaded that he’s absolutely authentic,
absolutely credible, that he’s not some deep state attempt to
(22:53):
drew a soft disclosure and control the narrative, which is
what a lot of people are alleging is because I’ve
basically been watching from the sidelines as he’s been going
through the iterative process of slowly making that decision to
go public, and by golly, it’s been hard for it.
He’s a genuinely good human being, and he’d come to
(23:16):
the realization that morally, ethically, what he was seeing inside
the program was no longer tenable for him, and he
wanted to do the right thing and assist in public disclosure.
And I really admire him for it. And one of
the things that I can understand why people are skeptical
(23:37):
on social media. There’s been a blowback from a small
but very vocal minority of people on social media who
like to assume this kind of sagacious, all knowing preciens.
Oh yeah, this guy’s obviously affront you know, he’s clearly CIA.
It’s all a way of trying to control the narrative,
and that’s complete bullshit as far as I can see.
(23:58):
I mean, I truly I’ve investigated every aspect of Jake
Barber’s service history. One of the difficulties with him being
what’s called a knock, a non official cover operative, is
that when your knocks, you are literally sanitized. Your military
record is cleaned of any references that might allow you
(24:18):
to be identified as a covert operator. So his Tier
IE training, which is beyond any doubt whatsoever. I’ve spoken
to people who worked with him and served with him,
and as Tier one training. I’ve spoken to people who
verified his service when he was operating undercover, and those
people have more than substantiated to me that Jake was
(24:39):
very clearly a very highly trained operative within the US
defense intelligence community, and that he was doing a service
for his country well before he got involved in the program,
and that the program for him, it was a slow
realization that what he was being asked to retrieve on
the range, as he calls it, was not It’s interesting
(25:01):
because what I really admire about him now is he’s
basically made the decision to try and verify outside of
government what he knows has been going on inside government
in collusion covertly with private aerospace, and that’s what sky
Watchers all of that. Probably by the time this podcast
comes out, you’ll be seeing a new interview with me
(25:22):
and Jake Barber and people from Skywatcher, where we reveal
some quite extraordinary breakthroughs that they’ve made in the last
few months since I first ed his story. I can
tell you it’s dramatic. There’s going to be some really
interesting revelations coming out in the next few Even then.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Your last interviewer, there were some fascinating things that came out,
and one of the important interesting aspects of that was sionics.
He mentioned sianics in there, which is kind of a
new term to a lot of us. And now there’s
this huge interest in the topic. And you know the
research of doctor Danne Poll and the documentarian Kay Dickens.
They’ve brought a lot of attention to the telepathy tapes.
(26:02):
What are your thoughts on her work in that whole aspect?
Speaker 5 (26:06):
Oh, I like you, I mean, I’m thrilled by the
telepathy tapes. I take my hat off to Ky Dickens
and doctor Diane Hennessy Powell for the work that they’ve
been doing. There’s the usual blowback, Oh my god, the
predictable blowback from stuffy, stentorian blowhards in modern psychology and psychiatry,
(26:27):
who stick their heads in the sand and deny all.
There’s this resistance to the very possibility of psychic phenomena,
And as people watching my show Reality Check would see,
well before I did an interview with Diane Hennessy Powell,
i’d interviewed Russell tag from the Gate Program, the Stargate program,
who was one of the principal physicists scientists involved in
(26:50):
the study by the CIA of PSI phenomena right back
in the nineteen seventies with hal put Off, and one
of the most blibly often reported. So the media are
so lazy, they really constantly report this blame assertion that
the CIA’s shut down the whole Stargate program because it
wasn’t proven to be effective, and that’s just a load
(27:12):
of cobblers. It’s just not true. I’ve spoken to people
on the program, including Russell, but also people who’ve spoken
to me privately off the record, who may soon become public,
and they’ve confirmed to me that not only did the
CIA verify the use of remote viewing, the use of
the capacity to in some way remotely travel with your
(27:35):
mind and see locations, places, events in different space and time,
they verified that perhaps not to absolute scientific certainty, but
certainly I will tell you ron to the extent that
there is still, despite Pentagon denials, an active SI program
(27:58):
ongoing in the Pentagon today. It never stopped, and the public,
as usual, particularly the legacy lane stream media, have allowed
themselves to be misled and have the wall pulled over
their eyes. And it’s funny because I came to this
realization myself that how adept the United States is, and
(28:20):
I take my health to them. They’ve been able to
conceal this program so well for the last half a century.
They’ve been left unhindered. In the same way that the
UAP subject has been so stigmatized and treated with taboo
and steered away from by the mainstream media. There’s been
the same kind of manipulation with the study of psionics
(28:42):
or what you’ll soon start hearing soon this new term
neuro meditative interaction. I prefer psionics myself, and it’s going
to be very interesting because I am in no doubt
whatsoever about the efficacy and the awesome implications of what
Kaideker and doctor Diane Hennessy Powell have discovered with the
(29:03):
telepathy tapes. But there’s a bullshit line from an organization
in the United States which is trying to debunk this
whole story by basically saying that it’s just a clever
fraud by the parents, that what they’re doing is they’re
prompting their kids with visual and verbal cues when they’re
doing this iPad assisted reading, and it means they haven’t
(29:26):
done their homework, because as Kai, Dickens and Diane have
made very very clear in the research that they’ve done,
as you’ve pointed out, there are instances where there’s no
longer this assisted iPad verbal visual capacity, where it’s done
completely blind, completely controlled, there’s no possibility of any kind
(29:47):
of prompting, and the expert debunkers just choose to ignore that.
I think we’re in a period at the moment rom
where materialist science, I think is locked into the the
so called scientific hypothesis, you know, the idea that nothing
(30:09):
is it can’t be proven using you know, the established
accepted scientific method, then it’s not real. And one of
the problems is some of the most interesting things at
the moment that are indubitably things that have come to
the attention of intelligence and defense officials over the decades,
(30:32):
things like telepathy, things like anomalous phenomena, and modern science
I think has until very recently stuck its head in
the sand on this issue and gone, well, it can’t be,
therefore it isn’t It doesn’t fit into our materialist paradigm
using the scientific method, you know, we can’t repeat it.
Therefore it’s not true. And it’s really interesting because I
(30:54):
think there’s a growing impatience in academia, in good science
about the way that that scientific method is constraining an
ability to even begin to engage with subjects like psionics, telepathy,
remote viewing, and the ideas behind anomalist phenomena. What if
(31:14):
humans have a capacity, through our pinealed lands and microtubules
in our brain to in some way connect with something external.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
And or a collective unconscious. We need to take a break. Ross.
Let’s pick it up on the other side of this,
and we’re going to talk more about psionics and these
developments with Ross when we return on Beyond Contact on
the iHeartRadio on Coast to Coast AM’s paranormal podcast network.
(32:00):
We are back on Beyond Contact talking to Rass Caulhart
about some incredibly fascinating things about consciousness and psionics. Did
you want to see something about that RASP.
Speaker 5 (32:11):
One of the things with science is that if you
don’t look, you don’t find art. And there’s so much
a convention in modern science, a stigma and a taboo
that’s attached to the subject matter of anomalous phenomena, and
telepathy and psionics fall into that category that in many ways,
if you don’t do the research, then you won’t find
(32:33):
And the thing that really fascinates me is anyone can
go online and read the CIA Library archives of the
Stargate program and grill Flame and all of the other
programs that were operated by the United States that have
been declassified since, and they show that the United States
spent an enormous amount of time and money investigating psychic phenomena.
(32:57):
And they wouldn’t have done that for nothing. A lot
of people say they would doing it because the Russians
were doing it, and it was just a Cold War
competition and they were just desperate to make sure that
they could rule out the possibility that there was anything
to this nonsense pigh phenomena. I don’t think that’s the
case at all. In fact, there is verified literature from
the Russian side of science that shows that the Russians
(33:19):
do take sigh phenomena very seriously and always have done.
And what’s really going on behind the scenes, ron is
that there is indeed a battle for control of this
new science of psionics neuromeditative interaction that we’ve discovered, that
the craft that have been capable of well, that have
(33:41):
been brought down, in some cases offensively by the United
States using weaponry, that when these craft have been opened,
when we’ve actually had a look inside them, they don’t
conform to any known craft that we would think of.
There’s not a steering wheel, there’s not a button you
can push to fly. The craft operated neuromeditatively psionically, and
(34:04):
you have to use your mind and learn how to
use your mind in order to be able to apply
that technology. And as a result of that, there’s been
a looking back in human history at people who have
these perceived spiritual gifts. And interestingly enough, you have to
go back to the Vedic traditions, you know, the traditions
(34:27):
of often Third world countries where people have been studying
these spiritual ideas for thousands and thousands of years. And
I don’t think it’s any coincidence at all that great
texts like the Marberrata and the Vedic texts write down
to the Sumerians. There’s references to some of these ideas,
and humans, I think have lost capacities. We’ve forgotten skills
(34:51):
that we have that are perhaps innate to all humans
and that may very well include psionic abilities.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
Isn’t an interesting Why do you think that we academia,
not just the government. I understand why they want to
keep that private. They don’t want the other people to know.
But why is academia always so resistant to all of
these things throughout history? There was thirty five years ago
there was a belief that there were no other exo planets.
(35:20):
One hundred years ago there was a belief that our
little tiny galaxy was the entirety of the universe. And
then we got powerful telescope so that we could see
there were galaxies beyond ours. It’s so glacial and so
difficult for them to be open to these ideas. Why
do you think that is?
Speaker 5 (35:40):
I think one of the things that happens in media
is what happens in establishment science, which is there is
a peck mentality. It’s easier to go with the crowd
than it is to go against the flow. Which is
kind of why. To be honest, Ron, I’ve always been
drawn to contrarian stories. I’ve always been drawn to, particularly
scientific stories, where there is quote, an accepted paradigm, an
(36:04):
accepted truth that we’re all told is the reality which
we will basically only report on, and if you try
and depart from that paradigm, you get smacked. And at
the moment you know, there’s been a huge battle going
on inside modern physics the arguments about quantum physics, and
there are some in physics, Eric Weinstein, who I know
(36:27):
and respect enormously as one of them, who think that
string theory in physics is all a bit of a
fraud designed by people in the program, perhaps to try
and mislead people from an understanding of quantum physics which
has already been achieved by those in the black somewhere
in these dark programs in the United States. And if
you look around, one of the things that I find
(36:50):
that is quite depressing is how easily people are led.
What I think is at the heart of it is
that humans find it very hard to go against the grain.
When society is basically pushing a particular direction. It takes
an act of courage to go in the other direction.
And I think that’s what’s happening at the moment with
(37:10):
both the UAP issue and also with these broader issues
that are starting to emerge of an understanding of human consciousness.
And ironically, ron the more I get into this subject,
the more spiritual I get. I’m not going to tell
you I’ve become a Christian or a deep believer, but
what it makes me realize is that some of the
(37:31):
essential messages that lie behind our religions are religious ideas
may in fact have kernels of truth in them, and
that if we basically stop for a moment and as
scientists think about the implications of what was being written
thousands of years ago in vadic texts, and reassess our history,
particularly also our ancient history, look again at those ancient
(37:55):
ruins and question the accepted archaeology about the age of
the prayer Omids or the age of Matchu Picu, and
then go back and think, is there an alternative explanation
for human history? That’s where I think things will start
getting interesting. But to do to do that, though, and
I’m not saying you should just WILLI Nelly embrace all
(38:16):
of these kirky ideas and just go with them. But
one of the problems I have journalistically is I’ve seen
it time and time again in journalism. I’ve been involved
in investigating murders. And there was a case I was
involved in here in Australia where a whole lot of
judges were murdered. Thirty years after all these judges were murdered,
(38:37):
the crime was still unsolved. There was a suspect, but
as far as the police were concerned, there was no
evidence to support a case against that suspect. And that
was glibly reported by the media for years. You know
that the case had gone nowhere and it was nothing.
And what we did was we went back and we
reinvestigated the case. We obtained what are called the police
(38:58):
running sheets and a piece of evidence that should have
been analyzed and investigated but wasn’t key DNA evidence. And
when we alerted the police about that DNA evidence and
brought it to their attention, they went back into the archives,
discovered that bit of DNA evidence and found a clincher
piece of evidence that led to the conviction of a
(39:19):
mass murderer.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (39:21):
And the interesting thing is we copped abuse from the
police for even going down that path. They really resented
us going in and digging the network that I was
working for. They made it very difficult for our police
reporters at the time. There was a sense that you’re
going against the grain here, you’re going against against the
accepted culture by questioning what we’ve done in the past.
(39:44):
And frankly, I think the best journalism, the best storytelling,
comes when you do that, when you go against the
grain and you start questioning accepted truths, it is more
of it. Well, it’s funny. My friend Leslie Kane, who
wrote a fantastic book on you of that was part
of the inspiration for me to get into this subject.
She I could never quite understand why when I started
(40:07):
writing my UFO book, Leslie had gone into the subject
of life after death. I thought she’d gone back shit crazy.
And then I realized as I was getting into the subject,
I too was finding myself drawn to the question of
life after death because I just wonder whether the UAP mystery,
what lies behind it, isn’t some kind of uber consciousness
(40:30):
that he’s essentially us after we die, and that.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
Where the streamer says that there’s a there’s a tie,
he’s the most known abductee that we have, and he
says there’s a connection between the visitors and the afterlife
and Rass one quick thing I want to say to you.
Don’t you think that the two questions for humanity one
hundred thousand years ago and you and I talking today
number one what happens when we die? And number two?
(40:56):
Are we alone? Absolutely shouldn’t we all be talking about that.
Speaker 5 (41:00):
The two most fundamental questions? And yet there is such
dogmatic resistance from establishment science and so much of establishment
media to even asking that question.
Speaker 4 (41:11):
And absolutely incredible. I just done, really really weird. I agree.
I feel like that should be what we talk about
as humanity each and every night on the News Ross,
We’re out of time. I cannot thank you enough for
coming on and taking the time to talk to us.
All of that information is really fascinating and we’re going
to have to watch for your new piece with Jake Barber.
Thanks again for coming on, Bud Real Pleasure. You can
(41:34):
find Ross on News Nation on his show Reality Check.
His podcast is Need to Know, which he will host
with Bryce Zabel and the two of them are actually
going to be recording their podcast live in front of
an audience on stage at Contact in the Desert and
there’s going to be an opportunity to ask these guys
some questions, and that alone is reason to go to
Contact in the Desert this year.
