Join Captain Ron and Arizona MUFON State Director Stacey Wright for a discussion about some of the state’s most famous UFO cases including the legendary 1997 Phoenix Lights, the Travis Walton Incident, and other lesser-known sightings from Arizona’s rich UFO history.
Captain Ron (01:14):
Welcome to Beyond Contact. I’m Captain Ron and say we’re
going to be speaking with Arizona State Director of Moufon
Stacy Wright. Stacy’s both the state director for Arizona Moufon
and also the director of Phoenix Moufon. She’s a certified
field investigator and Star Team member, and she’s been with
Muffon for over seventeen years now, so she knows what
she’s talking about. She built that Phoenix chapter of Moufon
(01:38):
from the ground up, and it has now become one
of Muffon’s most successful chapters, including receiving the very first
International Chapter of the Year award back in twenty seventeen. Hey, Stacy,
always nice to see you. How you doing, Thanks?
Speaker 5 (01:51):
Ron, I’m doing great, Nice to see you too.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
All right, So let’s take a look at your situation here.
So you’re in a perfect city in state to be
interested in this topic because there’s so many good cases
that had come out of Arizona and even specifically Phoenix.
So being the chapter director of both the state and
the city, we cannot not start with the Phoenix Lights.
(02:16):
So I realized that occurred a decade before you became
involved with MUFAN. But I’m sure you know a lot
about that case. Can you share with us some of
what you do know about that case and how it’s
evolved over the years.
Speaker 5 (02:29):
Yeah, I can. It was March thirteenth, nineteen ninety seven,
and there was a very large boomerang craft that traversed
the state from corner to corner and went over into
the border of Mexico and it was witnessed by it
seems like tens of thousands of people. There were one
(02:49):
thousand or so nine to one one calls that came
in on the event, and you know, it was just
something so incredible. We didn’t have a lot of cell
phones back then, so there’s no a lot of footage,
there’s not a lot of photos, really hardly anything at all,
but it affected just a numerous people. It just rocked
their world, the people that saw this, and it seemed
(03:11):
like there was different crafts that were appearing across the
state during the day, so really as much as seven
or eight different craft had appeared to people at different times. So,
you know, it’s just an incredible thing that people saw
these lights that they were seeing. And then you know,
some people saw the giant boomerang shape, and there were
different accounts of that. Some people were saying that they
(03:31):
could they could see through this craft, they could see
the stars and back of it. There were others that
said it had a real watery appearance to it. There
were some that said they saw it so close up
that the underside of it looked like it was textured
or had some kind of an aztecing design to it.
So there’s a lot of varying accounts. You know. It
just it came from the northwest corner of Arizona across
(03:54):
the state, and it seemed to almost follow the freeway,
which is really odd. It followed, you know, the major
highway through the state. So there’s people now you know
that say well, you know, it must have been something
housed up there at area fifty one. It’s that corner
up there, so so yeah, it came from area fifty one.
So then you have to look at it and say, okay, well,
(04:14):
if it was theirs, and it was something that was
housed there at area fifty one, then did it just
get loose, you know, just make its way across the
state and saw all the pretty lights down there on
the highway and decided to follow that, you know, through
the city, and.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
You think it would avoid a major metropolitan area like Phoenix,
you can oh.
Speaker 5 (04:31):
Yeah, you know, it’s huge, that seems it’s spread out there.
It’s ninety five miles across right now, so we have
a huge metro area. So then you have to look
at it and say, okay, well, if it was ours
and it was some super secret thing that was housed
up there at Area fifty one. If it was so
super secret, why would they then parade this thing right
over the top of this big metro area for all
(04:54):
to see. I mean, that doesn’t make any sense either.
And it was something so very large. I mean, this
one boomerang shaped craft was just huge. It was football
fields across to people, say, a mile or more across.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
And incredible to think of an object as big as
a mind.
Speaker 5 (05:11):
Flying, especially when you know the people that were reporting
that in said that it was so low and so
slow and zero sound. And the zero sound thing is
what really gets me, because you know, everything that is
man made that you know, we fly or that goes fast,
we have propulsion sounds that go along with that and
their laugh. So I’m not sure in nineteen ninety seven
(05:34):
that we really had the technology to fly something that big,
you know, to make it go that slow, and to
have zero sound. It just seems incredible to think.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Of that absolutely, And I thought that there was always
uh actually, I know there were some sightings during the day,
but for that evening thing that people what they referred
to as the Phoenix lights, it seems like there’s actually
two separate incidents. Like number one is what we’re describing here.
You’re saying, this V shaped boomerang shaped giant up to
(06:03):
maybe a mile across, came down from the northwest corner
diagonally through Arizona and over Phoenix. There’s that incident, and
that’s more like seven thirty to eight thirty timeframe. Then
there’s this other thing after ten o’clock. And those are
a lot of the videos you see of the lights
just kind of hovering there and people say that those
(06:24):
could be drone our excuse me, could be flares.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
Right, There were absolutely two separate things. So, yes, the
sighting that people had witnessed was around eight thirty pm
at night, and then we had something that came in
about ten thirty at night that was a complete cover up,
I believe. And those were the illumination flares that were
dropped south of Phoenix here. I think it was the
(06:47):
Air Force that had an Operation Snowbird plan that was
going on here and they were practicing and they decided
to drop illumination flares to make to just be able
to tell everyone, oh no, oh oh no, that wasn’t
some you know, spacecraft that you saw it was. We
know what it was. It was just us up there,
you know, practicing and stuff.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
But knowing what we know now, I can absolutely imagine
a scenario where they would scramble these things to drop
the flares, then to cover this up and muddy the
waters of what people saw, and then they can say, yeah,
we did drop flares that day. This was at a
time nineteen ninety seven nobody had smartphone jet not every
single person had a camera in their pocket and right
(07:29):
for social media. So social media was just in its
infancy at that point. So you could imagine if something
like this happened today, it would be photos and videos
flooding everywhere. People would be running outside checking seeing what’s happening.
It’d be all over the news because they’d have all
that footage. It’d be a totally different scenario, right it would.
Speaker 5 (07:52):
Yeah, And you know, we it’s hard to trust some
of the things that are coming out now because it’s
so easy to photoshop things with AI, making a showing
with everything. It’s it’s really hard to believe a lot
of things. But back then, you know, we really didn’t
have anything except for very basic stuff, and there really
was no real good footage of this. But when you
(08:14):
have tens of thousands of people who were eyewitnesses and
their testimony that counts as evidence. We just have to,
you know, assume that all this testimony is evidence, and
there’s a there’s a difference between proof and evidence. It’s
this isn’t proof, but we sure have the evidence for this.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
Notice about it. There’s a lot of seemingly similar reports.
Even the fact of the way they described, like the
canned lighting on the wings or the uh, you know,
panels of the craft, the way the orangish amber lights,
you know, very similar. Are you still getting people talking
about phoenix lights to this day? I mean it was
(08:51):
twenty eight years ago.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
We do surprisingly every every year we have maybe two
three people that send in reports to move on here
that say, you know, I was witnessed to that siding
way back then, but I really felt like I couldn’t
or I shouldn’t be saying anything about it, And now
that so much time has passed, I really want to
tell you about it. I’m good to tell you about
that now. So we take the reports in and their
(09:15):
information only, but you know, there might be something, there
might be some piece of that puzzle exactly what we
need to try to piece this together. So of course
we talk to these people, we listen to their stories,
and you know, maybe one day we we’ll be able
to discern exactly what that was. But right now it
was just a huge claim to fame for Phoenix here.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
I do feel the world has changed, though, and I
think people are more likely to talk about it today
than they were even just ten years ago. It feels
more comfortable in commonplace, and I don’t think it’s as
big a deal, especially something as common as the Phoenix lights.
You know, I could see someone had some obscure sighting
by themselves out in the desert. They might feel apprehensive.
(09:56):
This is something we have tens of thousands of people
who have already seen the video. You know, Kurt Russell
was the first guy, one of the first people who
saw it in a plane. I think it’s an easy
one to cop to, is what I’m suggesting. Stacy. We’re
gonna have to take a quick break right there. When we
come back, we’re going to talk to you more about
a very famous Arizona case as well, and that of
(10:18):
Travis Walton. We’ll be right back on the coast to
coast am Paranormal Podcast Network. We are back on Beyond Contact.
(10:44):
We’re speaking to Stacy Wright. So Stacy. The next one
that’s very well known in this community, of course, is
the Travis Walton case that goes back to nineteen seventy five. Granted,
well before you’re stint at move on. But you know,
We’ve had the pleasure of having mister Walton at Contact
in the Desert many times, and I’ve even got to
(11:06):
do a big event with him at the Observation Deck
and all day thing that really delved into his case.
And I have to say, as skeptical as I am
to a lot of these things, he really truly is
one of the strongest, most compelling cases that I think
we have in this community as far as the abduction
aspect goes. What do you think about his case?
Speaker 5 (11:27):
Well, yeah, I know Travis well, and I’ve heard his
story numerous times with him speaking, and you know, every
time you hear it, nothing has changed. A lot of
people that speak out there, you hear a little bit
of differences. Things change over time. Travis’s story has never changed.
And he really is an assault of the Earth kind
of guy. He’s a great person, very honest when you’re
(11:49):
in his presence, you can just tell that he’s a
man of integrity and honesty and there’s nothing fake about
his story. He and his fellow loggers, there are seven
of them and the two seats of this big old
Ford truck driving around up in the hills, and they
saw some lights through the trees, and usually when you
see something like that, automatically you think forest fire. And
(12:12):
these guys were equipped and contracted actually to go out
there and put out any fires that they might see
while they’re out logging. So they were equipped with chainsaws
and shovels and manpower, and that’s what you need to
maybe put out a fire when it first starts. So
they jammed over to where they saw these lights coming
through the trees, and to their disbelief, it wasn’t a
forest fire, but it was a large hovering circular craft
(12:35):
above the ground, maybe thirty or forty feet above the ground.
So Travis, being who he is, had to jump out
and get a closer look, which he did. Jumped out
of the cab of the truck, ran over toward the
craft and happened to get a little bit too close,
and I believe under the craft and he was zapped
with a beam of energy that sent him flying thirty
(12:56):
feet through the air. His friends witnessed this. They saw
him bounce. They thought, oh, surely he’s dead and this
thing’s freaking them all out. Anyway, they decided to just
get out of there. He’s dead. Let’s go go, goo go,
you know. So they got out of there and thought
about it for a second and said, no, we got
to go back. We got we got to see if
he’s still live. Turn this thing around. Let’s go back
(13:17):
and get our buddy. They went back. Both Travis and
the craft were gone. So now what do you do?
You know, they made their way into town, thinking, oh
my god, no one’s gonna believe us. What do we do?
They decided to tell the truth. And you know, these
guys are polygraphed numerous times, all of them, and they
all passed. Travis showed up three days later, made his
(13:39):
way to a phone booth right on the outskirts of
town there, called his brother Dwayne, who was one of
the guys in the truck as well, and said come
pick me up. And you know, he had gone through
an ordeal that he was still trying to figure out himself.
He was taken on board, and if you ask Travis
about this today, he doesn’t really consider it an abduction.
(14:00):
Abduction is when you’re taken against your will. It didn’t
really pan out that way, and he calls it an
ambulance call.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Yeah, so his story, he has stuck to all the
facts of the case and everything that happened and everything,
you know, in linear fashion, what happened to him. What
has changed though, which is just after time he has
some perspective on it, like you’re mentioning, He just reflected
back and thinks that, like you said, it was more
of a not an abduction, but rather a rescue or
(14:29):
you know, a hospital call like you’re saying, and they
were there to help him. He just like his his
take on what that they were doing with him changed,
But that doesn’t mean his story changed at all. He’s
been very accurate. And also it’s another one of these
great stories where everybody’s other story fits in and matches.
(14:50):
The brother did get that call, they did check those records,
All of these things check out. It’s really a strong case.
You know, in nineteen seventy five, we didn’t have all
these things. We didn’t have cameras in our pocket. We
didn’t all have cell phones with location services and all that.
Even if he had an iPhone with them. Now, you know,
if this happened, it would be amazing to see if
(15:10):
the iPhone would record that he was up in the
air maybe you know, he’s on that craft or whatever,
and when the guy’s left, you’d have all this documented.
So I think if we get another one of these
landmark cases today, it might be different. We have a
lot more, you know, tools for each individual person.
Speaker 5 (15:29):
Oh yeah, we’ve got some good tools now where we
might be able to document everything. But you know, you
have to take his word on this, and it’s really
easy to do. When you sit and listen to him,
you know that that’s coming from his soul.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
He’s absolutely a very genuine guy. I have to be
very honest. I’ve got the pleasure of getting to know
him a little bit, and I really do compelling. It’s
extremely compelling, and I feel for him to have been
through this and the stuff he’s had to endure over
the years. You guys have any particular insight into this
case being at move On? Do other people you said
(16:03):
that they came forward with, for example, the Phoenix Lights
or other cases has anyone come forward with you know,
I saw those loggers that day or do you get
any other information about this case?
Speaker 5 (16:13):
You know, I haven’t. I have not heard of any
other witnesses that have come forward. I mean, they know,
people have interviewed the sheriff and the you know people
around there just as some extra information, But I don’t
think anyone has come forward on this. It’s just an
incredible thing. You know. Travis has you know, been doing
(16:33):
this for well, it’ll be fifty years this year. So
we’re having a big celebration of his fiftieth anniversary of
this event at Phoenix move On on November eighth. So
we’re having a big showing of his film that was
made by Jennifer Stein, and we’ll have Travis and Jennifer
both speaking, and then we’re hoping to have a big
(16:54):
reception at the courtyard at our venue afterwards. So yeah,
we’re trying to, you know, really do this Sep right,
because fifty years of living with this kind of a
trauma basically is a really big deal and needs to
be rewarded with something.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
And I do I do feel that he deserves a
little bit of recognition and you know, thanks for his
bravery in enduring what he’s endured. You know, again, we
always think of things from our time frame today. In
nineteen seventy five, it was a different world. This subject
was way, way differently looked upon, and I think it
(17:31):
was very difficult for him to come forward with this,
and he took a lot of ridicule. And I don’t
think it’s it would be as bad today because people
seem to have a better or a little bit more
openness to the subject than they had in nineteen seventy five.
Cer he went through a lot.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
It’s gone so mainstream now, the whole UFO subject, with
everything we’ve been hearing about since really since about twenty seventeen,
when the Pentagon and the Navy came out with all
of their information and footage. Back in seventy five, you
were a nut. You were looney tunes if you were
talking about anything about even seeing a the UFO, much
(18:07):
less being taken up on one.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
Do you ever come across other people who have claims
that are even remotely similar to his?
Speaker 5 (18:15):
Nothing quite as big as as Travis’s story, No, I mean,
we do have abduction cases that come in right now
in Arizona. We’re working on five abduction cases. Our field
investigators are working on those. Yeah, I mean, stuff still happens.
People are having all kinds of experiences. There’s contactees, and
(18:35):
you know, luckily move On has the experience or resource
team which helps people find their way through this. It’s
a team made up of psychologists and counselors and people
who can really sit and listen and hear their story
and help them realize they’re not alone doing this. They’re
not nuts, they’re not insane. Things like this are happening
(18:57):
to other people and you can come through this and
come out the other side. So it’s a great resource
that we have and move On that they can help
people out like this.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
Do you still feel that Travis’s case is still an outlier?
People oftentimes will point to his cases it’s not a
typical quote unquote abduction or contact experience because he you know,
they think he kind of stumbled across the craft and
this incident happened, where in most cases it’s you know,
(19:26):
in the family, it starts when people are young and
that sort of thing. Is that what you find in
your reports?
Speaker 5 (19:33):
Yeah, it seems like people might be singled out and
it seems like like citing reports even are specific to
certain people. You might be in a group of thirty
or forty people and maybe only you saw that thing
in the sky or whatever was happening right then, and
(19:53):
no one else did. So I think they are specific
to people a lot of times. So whether that’s because
of a bloodline that’s happening or you know, something in
their genetics, I’m not sure, but yeah, we hear a
lot about that.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
There’s definitely a lineage to it. There’s definitely, I mean clearly,
there’s case after case that that seems to be the
thing going back generations. Even a lot of guys have
found that it goes back generations.
Speaker 5 (20:19):
It does seem to run in families.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Yes, yeah, we’re going to take a quick break there.
Stacy will be right back. When we come back, we’re
going to talk more to Stacy about some of the
other interesting locations and cases from Arizona, including Sedona and
the Bradshaw Ranch. You’re listening to Beyond Contact on the
iHeartRadio on Coast to Coast am Paranormal podcast. Now back
(21:00):
on Beyond Contact, I’m Captain Ron talking to Stacy Wright
from MUFAN. Stacy Arizona has been the site of so
many of these famous UFO sightings and alleged encounters. Let’s
talk about another interesting one right there, which is the
Bradshaw Ranch, which is just west of Sedona, and it
almost feels like it was sort of the Skinwalker Ranch
(21:22):
before there was a skinwalker ranch, or at least before
it became famous. You know, you always hear of these
sightings and other strange occurrences happening in this area. What
do you know about the Bradshaw Ranch.
Speaker 5 (21:33):
Well, what I know is just what I’ve read. I
have been out through myself a couple of times, but
I have not had any really strange feelings or seen
anything anomalists out there. But then I haven’t spent a
night out there either. It was just daytime visits out there.
But I have read quite a few things from Tom Dongo,
who is one of the researchers out there that you know,
(21:54):
came across all kinds of things, and his books are
great reads if you can get a hold of some
of the that. And you know, people say there’s so
much anomalousness going on out there that it is a
type of skinwalker ranch. There have been portals that open
up out there, there’s been strange cryptid creatures that have
been spotted out there, and you know, orbs and all
(22:17):
kinds of UFOs and things like that over the years.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
What about Sadona itself, That’s a city that we often
hear all aspects of spiritual encounters and people claim there’s
a vortex and different things there. Do you get a
lot of UFO stuff calls from that area.
Speaker 5 (22:33):
So much stuff from Sedona, and it really does seem
to be a hot spot of sorts, not only for
the tourists that go there for the beauty and the
landscape and the climate and it is really a unique place.
But you know, there seems to be a high level
of magnetics going on in Sedona. And you know, the
rocks there are red for a reason, that’s iron leeching
(22:56):
out of the rocks. Iron is very magnetic. The whole
area is very magnetic, and maybe that’s what draws these
you know, UFOs to the area. We don’t know exactly,
but you know, it can’t be totally discounted. But yes, Sedona,
you know, as alongside its beauty, has a lot of
weirdness going on there. I mean, that’s the only place
(23:18):
that i’ve been where I’ve ever felt like I’m going
to pass out any second because something really strange is
going on with me.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
Are you at elevation?
Speaker 5 (23:28):
Uh, you know the elevation there is probably Oh yeah,
it’s not very high. I would say thirty five hundred. Okay,
it’s not too high there at all. So but there’s just,
you know, some something going on there, you know. And
I know the UFO sky tours that they have at night,
there’s a really good one run up there by Melinda Leslie.
They see things all the time, all the time, so
(23:49):
you need some good night vision goggles to be able
to really, you know, get these things out of the sky.
There’s stuff going on. I can’t explain it, but it
is happening for sure. And we do get from Sedona
all the time. They’ll be tourists that come in and
they’re taking pictures of the beautiful landscape and some of
the creeks and different things around there, and then they
(24:09):
notice in their picture there’s something in there that they
didn’t notice when they took the picture. So they send
that in. We have that analyzed by our photo analysis team,
and you know, some of them are simple birds or
flybys of insects or things like that. But there’s a
couple other things in there that cannot be explained, and
then those those are true unknowns. So that’s what MUKLON does,
(24:33):
is we kind of weed out what is there, what
isn’t there? Ninety five percent of everything that we get
in can be explained, but it’s that other five percent
that’s so interesting because those turn out to be the
true unknowns.
Speaker 4 (24:46):
You know, a lot of these cases live on in
some ways. Like you said, you’re still getting calls about
Phoenix lights that was twenty eight years ago. Do some
of these other cases get calls as well? Do you
get historical calls or do some of the kind of
fade into oblivion over time.
Speaker 5 (25:02):
No, we’re still getting calls on everything. I have people
that inquire about the Kingman Crash a couple of times
a year and Bradshaw Ranch as well. So yeah, they’re
still living on. I mean, these stories are so incredible
it’s just hard to forget them.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
Well, here’s another question for you, and it’s not really
a UFO case per se, although it might be another
interesting aspect near Phoenix and other parts of Arizona, But
near Phoenix, even you guys have a lot of these petroglyphs,
and they oftentimes people say, and I’ve seen some of
the pictures and I’ve actually been out there. They do
(25:39):
look like what could be aliens, and they do look
like what could be spaceships. You know, there’s circular things,
there’s stars in the sky. Very well, it’s hard to
say what they really meant, but when you look at it,
it’s not hard to make the leap that it could
be referring to either UFO craft or saucers of some kind,
(26:00):
or even alien beings. What do you know about these petroglyphs.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
Well, you’re right, they are everywhere. I mean, there’s a
lot of hiking trails in Arizona, and hiking trails usually
go up, so you’re going up to some of these
rock faces and rock cliffs at the tops of these mountains,
and yeah, you look around and you notice that, you know,
you weren’t the first ones there. There’s been people, indigenous
people there that have been drawing and you know, making
(26:26):
their own story, writing it down basically on the sides
of these rocks. And yeah, there’s a little bit of
everything going on there. And if you sit there and
study it and really try to connect the dots. Yeah, yeah,
you can put it together. There’s there’s pictures of some
creatures that are not on this planet that we know about.
You know, there’s some strange looking stuff there. There are things,
(26:47):
you know, in the sky. Yeah, it’s great to go
and sit and look at this stuff and just kind
of ponder what were they seeing, what were they thinking,
what were they trying to write down to let us
know about. So, yeah, we’re full of stuff like that
everywhere you go.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
What about some of these different indigenous people that seem
to have places in Arizona still? Do you do you
ever get accounts reported from them or have you ever
had any of them come in and tell their history
with these experiences?
Speaker 5 (27:18):
Well, we have worked alongside the Navajo Rangers a bit
on doing some cases and retired Navaja ranger John Dover
and Stan Milford real good friends of ours. They have
cases and you know, they’ve brought mofon in on these
cases over time. And then there’s a lot of their
(27:39):
friends out there in the middle of the nowheres that
have things they want to report, but they don’t really
want to report it to white men. They just don’t really, Yeah,
they want to keep it to themselves. They’ll tell it
to the rangers and they might tell us a little
bit about it, but they don’t want to be interviewed
or have anyone out there on their land. So you know,
those things remain secretive.
Speaker 4 (28:01):
Why do you think that is. Do you think they’re
not trusting something?
Speaker 5 (28:04):
They don’t trust us, you know, they don’t really have
any reason to, so they keep it to themselves. But
there are numerous stories of skin walker activity, tribal witchcraft
out there, lots of UFO sightings, lots of stuff going on.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
We may have another piece of the UFO puzzle right there,
inches away from us. Absolutely times they if we could
get them to share that with us, you know.
Speaker 5 (28:31):
They do. They have so much out there to tell
and they just don’t like to let loose of that information.
And they don’t want you know, a bunch of people
out there on their land. I mean, these are they
call them their star brothers. They’ve been living with this
stuff in the skies forever and they’re not surprised by it.
They think that we’re a little bit wacky because we’re
just so enamored with this stuff and the sky, oh
(28:53):
my god, you know, to them, it’s an everyday occurrence.
So it’s just their star brothers, star people, and they
come and they go all the time. So to them,
it’s not a great big thing that anyone needs to
get worked up about.
Speaker 4 (29:06):
It’s just a thing that alone is fascinating because think
of that, this whole culture thinks that’s a normal occurrence,
so there must be something to it. When you come back,
we’re going to talk more to Stacy about some of
the other paranormal topics that seem to be interwoven with
the discussion of UFOs that keeps coming up over and over.
(29:27):
You’re listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast
to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back on
(29:54):
Beyond Contact. We’re talking to Stacy Wright about her experiences
with moufon and different cases and look locations throughout Arizona, Sacye.
Oftentimes we are discussing UFOs. These other paranormal aspects seem
to kind of creep into the UFO phenomenon. There seems
to be some sort of an overlap among these different phenomenon,
(30:15):
whether it be near death experience to sightings of UFOs
to the contact experience, all of these sort of interlap.
What do you see an overlap between these different phenomenon
and is that sor is reported to you.
Speaker 5 (30:30):
I definitely see an overlap. I think anyone that’s been
looking into this is you’re bound to see that over time.
So we have twenty fight field investigators just in the
state of Arizona right now, and if you ask each
and any of them, they would say, oh, yeah, you know,
you can see the overlap of this. So mofon does
not like to look into the paranormal too much, but
(30:53):
we all know that this is all considered in the paranormal.
So you know, you’re talking about bigfoot, you’re talking about orbs,
you’re talking about crypto creatures. I think that all of
these things are related somehow. We just haven’t figured it
(31:15):
out yet, but they just seem to be. I think that,
you know, our scientists have determined right now that we
have eleven different parallel universes right alongside us. We just
can’t see them, but they’re right alongside us. So maybe
these interdimensional creatures can just slip in and out of
these dimensions where to us that seems just completely impossible,
(31:38):
but I think it’s happening.
Speaker 4 (31:41):
So you said earlier that about ninety five percent of
the cases you look at, you guys, are able to
come up with a good terrestrial explanation for, and about
five percent remain anomalous. What are they typically turn out
to be? What is often time the misunderstanding?
Speaker 5 (32:02):
Well, you know, oftentimes when you look at something that
has become an unknown, you’re looking at lights in the sky.
Most of our stuff is lights in the sky. It’s
very easy to pick out a light in a dark
sky versus something that’s in the blue sky. People are
looking up at night, looking at the stars, looking at
the planets, so they see lights in the sky. But
(32:23):
what are those lights doing? Are they making sharp right
angle turns that are impossible for you know, what we
know now of our spacecraft to do, especially if they’re
piloted by human beings. There’s certain characteristics that they’re accomplishing
that we just you know, can’t do yet. So if
you’re seeing something like that, it’s considered anomalous. If it’s anomalous,
(32:44):
and we check it against everything that we know that
is not anomalous, if it doesn’t pan out to be
any one of those things, then it becomes a true unknown.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
Now, when this started, for you, what seventeen years ago,
you only had what four people show up to the
first meeting.
Speaker 5 (33:00):
Yeah, you know it was there was nothing going on
in Arizona moofon wise back in two thousand and seven,
and I just kept thinking, you know, I’m interested in
this subject. I had just read my first book on it,
which was the book by Jim Mars called The Alien Agenda,
and that book just grabbed me. And then I came
(33:20):
across Graham Hancock’s book Fingerprints of the Gods, and I
was sold. So I started looking for, you know, a meeting,
came across this funny sound and name of Moufon, you know,
and I wrote to the only contact person I could find,
which at the time I did realize was the executive
director of Movefon, and said, Hey, how come there’s no
meetings here in this town, this big, world class city
(33:43):
that had the Phoenix lights. We need something, you know.
So they started up a meeting here and that very
first meeting had like four people, and they were looking
for someone to volunteer to build up a new Phoenix
Moufon group. So I just raised my hand at that
point and thought, you know, I I can do four
people probably for better.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
So easy, Yeah, it’s better.
Speaker 5 (34:05):
So yeah, we’ve got now anywhere between one hundred and
two hundred and seventy five people coming to our Phoenix
move On meetings and it’s just you know, people are
super interested in the subject.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
And Phoenix seventy five come to your meetings. That’s incredible.
Speaker 5 (34:20):
Yeah, that’s how much our venue holds right now. We
filled it up four or five times with that number,
so it can be done.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
Oh that’s fantastic. Congratulations, that’s really good. It shows you
that there’s been a growing interest in this area.
Speaker 5 (34:33):
Yeah, you know with all the great shows on TV
that people can access and which then leads them to
do their own research. And that’s what we really try
to do is you know, well, we’re not afraid to
open up that can of worms and stir that pot
up a little bit and let people hear some of
this stuff that might be very controversial, because then that
urges them to go home and do their own research.
Speaker 4 (34:53):
Your masks pushing for that. You want people that do
your own research. You’re always saying, look, you can you
can hear from these guys and those guys, then look
up yourself, right, that’s good. That’s a good approach. I think.
You know, it’s interesting. I wonder why, you know, like me,
you haven’t had a personal experience as far as I know,
what do you think compels you to do all this?
Speaker 5 (35:18):
Uh? You know, I don’t know. I mean, maybe all
of us have just a little bit of some memory
that we can’t consciously recall. You know, maybe there’s something
just under the skin that we don’t know about and
we’re just trying to find out more about it. I’m
not sure, but it’s just, you know, there’s an interest there,
There’s there’s something that rings true to a lot of
(35:38):
this stuff. And you can find a little bit of
everything on TV. If you go out there looking at
all the shows on UFOs and aliens, you’re going to
find something that resonates within you. And that’s where you start.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
You know. I want to ask you this because Roswell
is my personal favorite case, even though it kind of
feels very you know, popular in pop culture and cliched,
if you really really do take a dive, deep dive
into the Roswell information as I have, there’s just a
lot there. Years ago, you had an opportunity to go
down to the actual crash site, and you participated in
(36:12):
an investigative dig with Don Schmidt, who I think is
amazing and a really good researcher of Roswell. I think
he’s the best. What was that like. Tell us about
that experience.
Speaker 5 (36:25):
Oh, yeah, it was great. And you know, Dawn has
been a great proponent of the whole Roswell thing, along
as with the late Stanton Friedman. I mean, there’s a
lot down there, and I think that there’s been a
lot of cover up going on. But yeah, Dawn had
been here speaking to Phoenix move On a couple of
times before this and realized that we’ve got some real
(36:45):
serious people here who are really hard working and willing
to get out there. So he said, hey, can you
bring a crew of people over there with you and
we’ll go out and do another one of the archaeological digs.
So in twenty thirteen we did that. I think it
was in October, and so we took ten or eleven
of us over there, and he had four different film
(37:05):
crews set up, rental cars, great SUVs, hotel rooms, everything
was set. So we went out each day and drove
about one hundred miles out into the area where the
crash was supposed to have taken place, and what we
were doing there is we were looking in the debris
field so they can tell like historical weather patterns and things,
(37:28):
where that craft may have skipped across the ground and
where when it hit the ground the debris that would
have fallen off of it would have flown in the
wind into the debris field. So that’s what we were
concentrating on then. So we all, you know, had a
crash course in how to set up our ten foot
grids with tape, and that went on for a long ways.
(37:51):
We had some metal detecting equipment and we were looking
into burrows in the ground a little bit because you know,
animals will find things and take them down into their
burrows over time that had never really been looked into,
so we were looking into that. We did find a
lot of things under the ground that were sending the
(38:11):
metal detecting equipment off. We found a lot of nails,
I mean there was a ton of nails there, and
supposedly the army had come in and spread just a
ton of nails everywhere to discourage people that were out
there looking for metal or for anything. All they’re coming
up with nails. Maybe they’d all get tired of it
(38:32):
and go home. We found some old brass buttons off
of army uniforms from that day and supposedly, you know,
they were looking through this land so closely that they
were on their hands and knees crawling around.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
That’s a piece of evidence. Why else would that be.
Speaker 5 (38:48):
Out there, right, Yeah, you could imagine buttons popping off
their uniforms as they’re crawling around there on their hands
and knees. And so it was a great experience. We
had a really good time out there. We didn’t really
a whole awful lot, but we had a bunch of
really qualified people out there and we hit that piece
of land and covered it.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
Pretty pretty cool to have experienced that being yeah, it
was nice. So Stacy, where can people find you and
your moofon organization?
Speaker 5 (39:15):
Well, if you just go to www. Dot phoenixmoofon dot com,
that’s our website and you can find out who our
speakers are, our location, what we do a little bit
more about moofon, and we have meetings every month and
we’ve got really high caliber speakers that we bring in
from all over the world, and we covered a whole
(39:36):
gamut of information and just great materials, so you know,
if you’re ever in the area, come on over to
one of our meetings.
Speaker 4 (39:44):
Awesome, Thanks so much, Stacy, A lot of fun. I
really appreciate it.
