Join Captain Ron this week along with his special guest Documentary Filmmaker James Fox as they discuss his latest film “The Program”, and explore the fight for whistleblower protection, the challenges of UFO disclosure, the steps being taken to uncover the truth, the future of UFO phenomena and what it means for humanity!
Episode Transcript
Captain Ron (01:14):
Welcome to Beyond Contact. I’m Captain Ron. Today we’re going
to be speaking with documentary film director James Fox. James
has created a body of work primarily centering on the
UFO issue. His directorial credits go back to two thousand
and three, when he created Out of the Blue. In
twenty twenty two, he made moment of contact about the
Virginia UFO incident in Brazil. He has just released his
(01:35):
latest film called The Program, which provides a behind the
scenes look at the world of UAP research and explores
the unprecedented bipartisan congressional effort to uncover what intelligence agencies
really know about UFOs. He is convinced that UFOs are
indeed real and that governments have concealed this information on
the subject from US for at least seventy years. I
(01:58):
have seen all of James’s UFO films, which I think
is legally required to be.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
In this community.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I think they mandate it now, James, and from my view,
this latest film was one of the strongest ones in
certain ways. It really illustrates what’s been happening the last
seven or eight years with regard to the government’s interest
in the UFO topic. I think we needed this film.
It really shows people outside our community how many serious
(02:25):
people with serious jobs are taking this subject matter seriously,
despite the frustrations and obstacles that block them, let alone
how they block us. So how you doing, James, great.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
Thank you, thank you so much. You know I recently
got to go into a Skiff and I could talk
about that more later in the show with the new
head of ARROW, John KOs Klowski, and another gentleman who
was Air Force Office Special Investigations. I got forty eight
hour screening and I got my little pass and escort
only and it was crazy. But the one thing that
(02:58):
this guy said to me, which I was tickled pink about,
was that the phenomenon was mandatory viewing for anyone who
wanted to work for ERROW.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Is that right? The new UAP Task Force.
Speaker 5 (03:11):
Resolution Office?
Speaker 4 (03:13):
I will agree with that.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Yeah, you got to make this one on that list too.
I’m telling you this is a great one. I really
really like it. I’ve been telling a lot of people already. Hey,
before we dive into the program, I just want to
ask you real quick. I wanted to follow up and
see if there’s any developments with regard to the Virginia
Brazil case that was in moment of contact. In fact,
I saw that film with you here at the La
(03:35):
Premiere a few years ago in twenty two.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Wouldn’t that It was awesome.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
It was a giant theater, We had a ball and
there are elements of that film that remain unresolved.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Have any any developments.
Speaker 5 (03:48):
Absolutely, Yeah, I mean I went on so that film
was dropped at the end of twenty twenty two, I
believe this. And in twenty twenty two, so let’s see,
three or four months after that, and I had stuff
trickling in. I got invited on the show with Joe
Rogan because I think Joe Rogan initially had heard about
an alleged UFO crash Live Aliens, and he had the
(04:10):
same reaction that I did. It was like, Yeah, it’s
impossible that didn’t happen. I’m not even gonna bother looking
into it, and I’m definitely not going to cover this.
And I don’t blame him. I had the same I
had exactly the same response. That lasted over ten years,
and I make documentary to the UFOs. But so when
I went out with Joe Rogan about it, and Joe
Rogan really kind of pulted that whole case into the
(04:31):
I mean, just exploded these issues stats sphere. Yeah, And
I had a lot of leads, a lot of a
lot of leads that I spent as much time as
I possibly could in between producing the program following as
many of those leads as possible. What it ultimately turned
out to be is like, Hey, we’re gonna have to
meet in person. I’m not in a position right now
to come to Brazil and particularly if you’re not going
(04:53):
to show me proof, So we’ll just have to meet
in person. So I have about eleven folks that I
need to go and meet with it. I’m leaving in
ten days. We’ll see what happens.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
That will be awesome.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
I hope you’re not going to come up with anything
without going.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
No no, I mean when you were down there, I
mean there was incredible things and there were some tense,
scary moments for you. Man, it felt like it was
getting dangerous at a couple of points, if you know
what I mean, no.
Speaker 5 (05:17):
Question, no question I have I always listened to those
inner voices, and it was like, it’s time to get
them out of here.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
Yeah. I don’t blame you at all.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
I was feeling that sitting in my seat, thinking, oh man,
that’s too much for me.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Man.
Speaker 5 (05:32):
I went I was terrified about the safety of my crew,
our safety, the safety of the people that we had
just met with. I was terrified that of our gear.
I was worried that we’re going to get everything confiscated
that we’re trying to get out of the country. I
actually went to a FedEx office in a remote area,
paid a ton of money, and had hard drives FedEx
(05:53):
top priority back to the United States just in case.
So I was thinking all kinds of precautionary measures.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
See, is that fear factor that we have makes it
even more credible. People don’t react or get defensive about
things that aren’t real.
Speaker 5 (06:08):
Oh yeah, yeah, no, obviously it shows.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
You there’s something there. Whatever. It may have been very creepy.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
Yeah, anyway, carry on, Yeah, yeah, yeah, let’s.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Go on to the program. Like I said, I think
it’s fantastic. There’s a few interesting comments from the film
that I’d like to present to you and let you
expound on them a little bit, Starting with an easy
one that still very enlightening to me.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
You know.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
They were talking about how the military pilots haven’t had
any collisions with these UAPs necessarily, but there have been
a lot of near misses.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
And there’s a moment in.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
The film where you have Christopher Mellen talking about this,
and he says that the UAPs are so prolific for
these military pilots that they actually hang posters warning about
the dangers of mid air collisions.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
Isn’t that very telling?
Speaker 5 (06:51):
Unbelievable? And I actually tried to get I mean, I
remember talking to Fravor and Graves, particularly Graves, and he
was like, uh, daily daily, yeah, all the time. Yeah,
we go out every day. There they were doing, doing,
doing doing, doing their thing and there’s nothing we can
do about it. And they had a really long uh
(07:11):
loiter time, I mean indefinite. So what was powering these things?
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Nobody’s doing that? Exactly my wins.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
And you know, while I’ll.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Tell you what some people would make the argument, we’ve
clearly established that there’s been these secret programs that look
at this topic like a tip and others.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
Couldn’t there be.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Secret military programs that are making anti gravitic craft or
trans medium craft.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Isn’t that possible?
Speaker 5 (07:34):
Look, I’ve I’ve come to realize in this in the phenomenon,
that anything is possible. Don’t have that knee jerk response
that I’ve had time and time again for decades of
that’s too improbable, like gets unbelievable, it can’t happen. And
now I’m at the point where I have to entertain
all things on the table. Clearly, in my opinion, we’ve
recovered stuff. I have no doubt about that from my
(07:56):
personal investigations and other things. So the question is have
we successfully reverse engineered it? Some of us would say yes,
and some people that I trust have said no. Some
people that I’ve interviewed said that we understand on paper
how it works. But then I’ve interviewed other government officials
that said they’re leaning in the direction that they have
successfully reversed in here. I personally don’t know, but I
(08:17):
have to say that anything’s possible at this point. Are
we dealing with a small percentage of these objects, as
we always have been, originate from a non human intelligence? Yes,
no question. Can the vast majority be explained away in
other more conventional terms?
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Sure, How do you know that this phenomenon is from
an off world source?
Speaker 5 (08:36):
I don’t, I say non human intelligence?
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Okay, well, how do you know that?
Speaker 5 (08:40):
I don’t. I don’t.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
What makes you compelled to feel that it is.
Speaker 5 (08:46):
Close encounters of the third kind?
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (08:48):
And the exhibited technology. You look at the phenomenon, the
film the phenomenon that we did. Thanks to David Marler
and other archivists, we put together the best package of
archive interviews and and material dating all the way back
to the nineteen forties up to modern day. And you know,
the observed technology is identical in the forty seven as
it is today. So either someone’s been harboring that technology
(09:12):
ultra secret technology for what it was at over eighty years.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
That’s even more compelling, because even more compellery.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
We didn’t have that kind of technology that we’ve got
let alone now.
Speaker 5 (09:22):
But you’ve got the close encounters of the third kind.
So that was in you know, Project Blue Books, owned files,
and that’s the description of the entities connected to some
of these craft according to the witnesses.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
A lot of that stuff matches up.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
You know, there’s this genius editing moment I got to
tell you in the film where you show the guys
from NASA explaining everything away and you morph right into
Jay Allen Heinez seeing the same government stance over fifty
years ago. That was the Kremviller was awesome?
Speaker 4 (09:51):
Great?
Speaker 5 (09:52):
Wasn’t that beautiful?
Speaker 3 (09:53):
It was so great word for word, and it was like,
it just shows you that the government’s touting the same
thing and they are basing that from NASA solely on
unclassified reports unbelievable.
Speaker 5 (10:05):
Yeah, unbelievable that you would launch an investigation the head
of NASA and only have access to the like unclassified
data stuff.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
I do you idiots or this guy doesn’t know more
than me.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Yeah, I have access to the newspaper. Come on, Oh
my gosh.
Speaker 5 (10:25):
And then the hatchet Jobby did on Grush. The head
of NASA, Bill Nels, you know, said I was at
the time when that happened.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
I was.
Speaker 5 (10:31):
I was at the press conference for me.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
You ask a question in the film, which was great, Yeah,
a couple.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
Yeah, we have no idea what they are, but they’re real.
But they’re not extra trustial, They’re not you know. I
was like, wait a minute. You just said that you
have the real you don’t know what they are and
yet but they’re not this I’m like, well, how could
you say what they’re not when you don’t know what
they are?
Speaker 3 (10:51):
At the very least say we don’t know least that’s
a legitimate thing. But to dismiss it out of hand,
I think is wrong. We have to take break here, James.
When we come back, we’re going to talk more with
James Fox about the difficulty of getting some of this
information from many of the key people as they’re bound
to these NBA agreements and their security clearances. You’re listening
to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
(11:12):
AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back on Beyond Contact.
(11:35):
We’re talking to James Fox. James, you have these guys
on your movie that are for example, let’s see how
put Off and Gary Nolan that flat out state right
to you that they know a lot more than they’re
saying because of the national security oaths. Hal goes as
far as say, I would be in jail if I.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
Told you what I knew. He says that right to you.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
So it shows that these guys know a lot more,
and he in fact says the government can keep secrets
through these NDAs. As a filmmaker, you know you have
the right guy, but he can’t say everything. Is that
frustrating for you?
Speaker 5 (12:09):
Well, I think it’s even more frustrating for the viewers.
I mean I see some of the comments like, ah,
I’m so sick and tired of these NDAs and people.
You know, it’s a bunch of a big nothing burger
and they’re not revealing. It’s like, well, you know, I
have to remind the audience that it’s very difficult to
look for something that you don’t know is exists. Right,
So first part is established the existence of something. You’ve
got these people saying, look, give me the immunity. I
(12:31):
need to provide the necessary details, the classify details to
verify my claims. There are a number of people that
appear in the film that are legitimate whistleblowers, that have
provided street addresses to people that arrow collect members of Congress,
and those people also participate in the film. So yes,
it’s frustrating, but again I have to remind you that
they even feel they have a target on the back
(12:51):
just for saying what they’ve already said. So there’s a
risk there. And again it’s impossible to go after something
if you don’t know it exists.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
It was great to leave that in the film that
they flat out and say, oh, yeah, I can’t because
of this, which is really revealing. Your film also does
a nice job of demonstrating how none of this is
as easy as people think it is. Congress can pull
up government official and military people in to testify, so of.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
Course what do they do.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
They bury this stuff in the military industrial complex like
Lockheed Martin raytheon Northrop Boeing and all of these which
are private companies that don’t really have to answer, right,
how’s that whole thing work?
Speaker 5 (13:27):
Well, that was one of the things that I was
trying to wrap my mind around because for decades I’m like,
who has the evidence? Where is it? And who has
the authority to release it? That I couldn’t wrap my mind,
you know, And I’m slowly learning that they are considered
to be waived unacknowledged special access programs that are probably
(13:49):
under the umbrella of the Doe Department of Energy. And
that I’m told is where you hide these special access
programs because it’s got the least amount of oversight, right, Yeah,
and then they subcontract stuff out. Again, this is explaining
to me by members of Congress. They subcontract them out.
So let’s say that Lockheed Martin’s got a contract with
the United States government. Lockheed’s got the goodies, the government
(14:11):
does not they have the contract. I was explained to
me that, you know, we could bring the people that
have the contract with them in to testify, but we
can’t go and get the private entity, the heads of Lockheed,
to come in. We can’t subpoena them, and.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
They have plausible deniability because they don’t know.
Speaker 5 (14:27):
Very genius the way they set up. But you know,
I’ve been doing this over thirty years now, and I
just don’t see them put the genie back in the bottle.
This is coming out. I feel very confident saying that,
And in the past I probably wouldn’t have said that,
but now I feel pretty confident. This is God.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
I hope you’re right, I really do.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
One big thing I did learn in the film was
which really kind of blew me away, was how these
guys like we talked about David Grush still not giving
any closed door testimony. A lot of us watch him.
You know, they get frustrated when they watch their movies
and they aren’t able to say things when they were
testifying it Congress. Me and people that were watching with
me were frustrated that all the good answers were I
(15:06):
can’t tell you here in a public forum, but I
will tell you in a secure stuff. So I literally
assumed he had given testimony in a Congressional committee by now,
but they would.
Speaker 5 (15:15):
They wouldn’t let him in. They wouldn’t let him in,
they wouldn’t give them the clearances. They stripped him of
that because they knew. And Brian Bender, who was a
contributing editor to Politico for a long time and a
writer on the on the Hill, said it very eloquently.
He’s like, look, there’s one thing I’ve learned working on
the Hill for over twenty years is that if Congress
finds out about it, so will you. Congress leaks like
(15:38):
a sieve. So I think the DoD made a very
measured that’s their wall.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
They don’t give it a Congress because because apparently they
I am sure that he.
Speaker 5 (15:46):
Could not Grush could not get the clearances needed to
go and have a meeting in a skiff with select
members of Congress.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
They don’t have it either, right because they don’t even
know the questions to ask what.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
They really should be talking about. And one of the
things I I’ve been stressing on for quite a while now,
the current ICIG, which is Thomas Manheim, Inspector General of
the Intelligence Community. He’ll be stepping down in maybe ten
days or less. That’s the guy that, according to everybody,
including Grush, was given street addresses, all the details needed
(16:19):
so that individual needs to be brought before a committee,
provided the necessary immunity and have an open congrescial hearing
and have all the goodies billed, because that’s the guy
that knows.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
I’d love to get him in there. That’d be great.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
You know, I love this quote. I heard from you
somewhere where you were saying that you believe David Grush’s
story because everything you’ve done in research for the last
twenty thirty forty years matches up, Yeah, with what his
testimony is.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
It’s exactly that’s exactly right. I don’t just believe David
Grush because he testified to a bipartisan group of lawmakers
under oath in an open congressional hearing that there’s the
crash retrieval stuff, but it aligns with my research in
the field. I’m not a Stanton Freeman in terms of
the amount of investigations I’ve done with Roswell, but I’ve
(17:04):
met with at least twelve first hand witnesses from Roswell.
I went there for the fiftieth anniversary. I talked to
people that have handled some of that debris. I’ve looked
into that case on and off for thirty years. And
then of course I did the Virginia case, which is
a crash retrieval case. It happened in nineteen ninety six
in Virginia, Brazil. Moment of Contact was the film we
made on that. So I had no idea that when
I released that film six months later, you know, a
(17:26):
high level intelligence officer was going to be testifying under
oath that a crash retrieval program exists. I could have
never seen that one coming. Yeah, it was amazing, right.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
Happy to write a contact in the desert while we
were still going.
Speaker 5 (17:38):
So that was that’s why I don’t think I’ve ever
been to contact in desert. I want to come sometime.
I know.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
I’m sorry, we will not allow that.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
You can either confirm nor deny.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
I listen, I have a security oath with the people
of Contact, and I’m not allowed to talk about that.
Speaker 5 (17:53):
Yeah, well you know, I’ll get you in a skiff
and we’ll talk.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
There we go.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
So basically, the government makes it really tough. The DD
won’t let people like Grush testify. They hide the tech
and intellectual property with these private corporations. They hold everyone
that knows about this to a security oath. How are
we going to break through this? Here’s a thing, whistleblower production.
Speaker 5 (18:15):
This is really funny because they haven’t acted some I’m
told it’s not enough, but you know they’re going to
take another stab at it. Kirk McConnell told me that
Center rom Service Committee. But it’s funny because I went
into that skiff. I met with John Kosklowski and this
other gentleman, and I talked to him about some of
the cases that there were most puzzling. I think I
(18:35):
particularly mentioned the Phoenix Lights nineteen ninety seven, because that
was that massive craft and the object over Ohair Airport
I think it was two thousand and six, the disc
that punched a donut shape hole in the cloud as
it departed. I said, what’s the plan with Arrow for transparency?
Once you know, obviously you’re going to call the conclusion
that a certain small percentage of these originate from a
non human intelligence, what’s the plan to tell the general public?
(18:59):
And he didn’t say he didn’t disagree with me, and
I think he just looked at me and he goes, James,
I can’t part my own hair without approval from the
DoD And you can quote me on that. You could
say you met with me and you can reveal that aspect.
And I think what he’s telling me was doesn’t matter
what conclusions I come to, doesn’t matter what I uncover
(19:19):
and discover, my hands are tied. I can’t reveal what
I know without prior approval from the d D. And
that’s just the way it’s set up is just inherently bad.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
It’s very very telling too, and it shows people that
gave Sean Kirkpatrick. He you know, got a lot of
criticism and we heard negative things about him, but I’m
sure his hands were tied as well.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
Yeah, but yeah, I think he was a little bit
worse than that.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
But Errow has not seemed to proven to be what
we hoped it would be, which was this transparent thing.
We’ve talked to many people even on here, who talk
about how they’ve given them information, but then when Ero
comes out with it, they say, we don’t have anything.
It’s just another continuation of you know, grunge sign and
blue Book and all that.
Speaker 5 (20:00):
Really funny with moment of contact, we had two or
maybe three witnesses, military and doctors who wished to remain anonymous.
You take what you can get in the field and
you vet these people at a time, and there’s an
individual I think one, there was two. There was one
individual in the program. He’s referred to as Army X,
(20:21):
and he has seen some of the more compelling sensor data,
particularly four K video of these UAP and he goes
as far as giving specifics as to where like the
Cypronet specifically where it’s found. And when I was in
the skiff with the heads of Arrow, He’s like, well,
this is my computer system, but this is Cypernet and
(20:43):
this is there’s two different I was thinking about myself.
I think I could probably find some pots stuff from
what I’ve learned.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
Yeah, that’d be awesome.
Speaker 5 (20:52):
Man Ohney.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Guys, James, we need to take another break right there.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
When we come back, we’re gonna talk more about this
with James and find out more about what’s happening in Congress.
You’re listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast
to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back on
(21:32):
Beyond Contact. We’re talking to James Fox about his latest film,
the Program, and we’ve been talking about what’s been happening
in Congress. James, we had a shot at this, you
touch out it in your film with the Schumer Rounds
created that UAP act in July of twenty three, but
then by the time it got passed in December, it
was severely gutted. They took out the key provisions like
(21:54):
eminent domain and the IP was all removed from the bill.
And I find that very frustrating to me. We hear
from the government that there’s nothing to see here, so
then we say, well, here’s a bill, let’s take a look,
and they say, uh, no, we’re not going to do
that to me. If you’re coming into my house and
you’re looking for leprechauns, they don’t exist, So come on
in and look at everything. Why don’t they let us
(22:14):
come look to me? The holders of this knowledge obviously
don’t want it out.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
Interesting good point because and I believe that that that
language was put in the UH the National Defense Appropriation
Act twenty twenty two for twenty twenty three and twenty
twenty three for twenty twenty four. But it passed in
the Senate and then it failed in the House, and
there were a couple of Republicans that shot it down.
And it was interesting because David Grush talks about it
(22:42):
on Joe Rogan and he was like, if there’s nothing
to see here, why did you you know, and it’s
like coincidentally, the people that shot them down represent districts
from like, oh, the biggest donors are like Boeing, Lockheed
raytheon the other one’s over it, you know, Oh the
place where this other goodies are kept that far as
we know, and they shut it down.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
If you knew nothing about this, it seemed very obvious
nothing to see here. Well, there’s nothing to see here,
then come take a look.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
Pass it, pass it.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
And they didn’t, I know, and I really think we
need that.
Speaker 5 (23:16):
They say, don’t listen to what people say, watch what
they do.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
Yeah, I want to ask you.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
The film does a great job of demonstrating how complex
this issue is. It’s not as simple as announcing Big
D disclosure. We have aliens, there’s these districts and people
and companies who clearly do not want this information getting out.
And you can imagine the huge array of complications a
quick big D disclosure bomb would cause. I mean, there’d
(23:43):
be the economic storm, that’d be the religious borders, beliefs,
all these issues.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
But there’s these other.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Little issues which are touched on in there, which is,
you know, why why did you lie to us? Why
did you not tell us this before you discredited my grandfather.
Why how did you give this tech to Raytheon and
not my company? Why did you pollute the world with
fossil fuels when you had clean energy? To be a
million little things that people don’t think about, right, you.
Speaker 5 (24:10):
Know, myself included. I mean, I gotta tell you, I remember,
probably coming up on twenty years in the field, I’d
have to do the exact calculations. I had a meeting
with Robert Bigelow at his house in Las Vegas, and
you know, I think he was more probing on what
my next move was going to be. Quite honestly, I
(24:32):
don’t think he was really there. I mean, he congratulated
me on a film I did called I Know What
I Saw, which is about that National Press Club event
I did with Leslie Kane back in two thousand and seven.
We made a movie out of it. But in any case,
he initially kind of put the feelers out as if
he was going to potentially fund one of my next projects.
That didn’t happen at all, But he did say to
me when we were having lunch, and I wasn’t really
(24:54):
I’d never really thought about it at the time. He
was like you know, have you ever thought about the
politics of disclosure. I’m thinking to myself, no, why would
I know. And then he said, take every scandal in
the history Monica Lewinsky and Iran contray all this stuff,
take them all and multiply that by like a thousand
(25:15):
or a million. I don’t remember if it was a
thousand or a million. And that is the impact that
this truth, this story would have. And I was thinking
to myself, what is this old man talking about, like
really like financial institutions, religious institutions. I’m thinking big f
and deal is the massive universe. The odds of life
(25:35):
are one hundred percent. We all know that, nobody disputes
that anymore. We’d have this big kumba yah moment group hug.
It would have this unifying effect on humanity. We all
see ourselves who we really are, one species, one race,
one planet, blah blah blah. And it was like chuckling
kind of at me. It is like, yeah, no, kid,
you got it all wrong. They’ve done extensive studies on it.
It would actually have this massive impact. And then we decided.
(25:58):
I decided to for the first time in any movies
that I’ve done, to explore the politics of disclosure, which
we did. And it’s interesting you’re the one of the
few people that have brought that up. It’s far more
complex than I would have ever imagined.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
You do, right, I don’t.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Most people don’t think about this, and certainly when you
meet people or fans of this kind of thing, they
just we want to think. But you got to think
it through. There’s a lot more to this.
Speaker 5 (26:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
So even though we want it, and even if the
people are trying to let this out, there’s gonna have
to be some strategies here. You can’t just simply drop
this bomb.
Speaker 5 (26:30):
Yeah, No, absolutely, Hal put Off says it, says it beautifully.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Yeah, And I think, of course they could force our hand.
They could land it right on the White House lawn
and boom, you know what.
Speaker 5 (26:40):
I mean, almost done that in the past.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
They’re not quite Yeah, I don’t know. I mean, that’s
that’s the next level up, you know.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
I mean they’ve done some brazen things they I mean
like like Hudson Valley, Phoenix Lights, Ohair Airport, Stevenville. I
mean they’ve done, you know, two consecutive weekends buzzing the
Capitol in the White House in July of nineteen fifty two.
That’s pretty brazen.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
I wonder if.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
That’s by design, if they’re trying to do that, or
if it’s not.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
To me.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
I always think they’re probably so technologically ahead of us
that I have a hard time thinking that they care
what we’re thinking one way or another. I always love
the jungle theory of you know, we come across an
ant hill, but we don’t care what the answer are.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
Doing, you know what I mean. I think that’s probably
where they’re at.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
If they have the technology to come here wherever they’re
coming from, interdimensionally or you know, galactically, whatever it is,
it doesn’t seem like they’re going to care about our
little needs very much. I could see them paying attention
to our nuclear weapons and being like, hey guys, you
know stop.
Speaker 5 (27:42):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. You think some of the detonations particularly,
that’s court effect their reality. Yeah, they could affect their reality. Yeah,
you know. I’m I’m thinking about the time where I
got to interview the children now adults of the nineteen
ninety for Aerial School Place. Yeah yeah, John Mack stuff.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (28:04):
I remember a couple of the of the children now
adults telling me as adults about twenty years after the
fact that they said it was like, uh, you know
when they had face to face contact and I was like,
woll how close some of them were like oh, hands
reach away and like right three feet right there. They
said it was like like if you’re in the wild,
in the wilderness and you come upon a rare sighting
(28:25):
of a of an animal, Like there’s this like moment
of mystery and curiosity and bewilderment. Like they were like
the children were perplexed and baffled and curious, and the
and the creatures were. It was mutual. They were both
just like this standoff of just this fascination and curiosity
and mystery, and it was just like this moment of
time where time almost stopped. They described it a little
(28:47):
bit like that.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
That aligns how I would imagine it could and should be,
don’t you think?
Speaker 5 (28:51):
Yeah? Sure, yeah. I remember I interviewed Parvistafari. He was
a general in the Iranian I Guess Air Force, and
he had had this really dramatic encounter I think it
was in an F four fighter jet in the seventies
mid seventies over tay Rannie Ron. Very dramatic encounter. I featured,
and I know what I saw all the years later.
(29:12):
We flew him in two thousand and seven, so I
don’t know how many years that was. Thirty forty years later,
he goes, you know, James, my biggest regret was that
I didn’t try to make peaceful contact. Instead I tried
to shoot it, which obviously didn’t end well for him.
It locked up all of his cockpit and spiraling out
of the sky, and he thought he was gonna have
to eject. But all those years later he said on camera,
(29:33):
he goes, they weren’t posing a threat to me. Why
did I try to make peaceful contact? That’s what he
said to me. I looks fascinating.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
Was it his choice or did he have orders to
do that?
Speaker 5 (29:41):
Do you think that’s a good question. I’m not sure.
I think that’s just the military stance in general. If
you can’t identify something, you have to look at it
like a like it’s a threat and shoot it out
of the sky, like.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Every Godzilla movie and every other movie.
Speaker 5 (29:54):
You know, really kill it, blow it up. And that’s
what Killing asked questions later.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Incredible, it’s illustrating in your film that these people on
Capitol Hill are taking more seriously than ever this topic,
which is great. They’re pushing for transparency and they’re getting
closer to the answers of what’s up with this phenomenon?
Is it your sense that this is going to continue?
Are we going to get anywhere with all of this?
Speaker 5 (30:16):
Yeah? I think we are going to continue, Yes, I do.
Your audience got to go check something out. Go to
my ex account formerly known as Twitter at James C.
Fox Seas and trolls at James C. Fox and look
up a post I did about a week or two ago.
It’s Kirk McConnell on a Reddit forum. I asked. Kirk
(30:36):
McConnell said, an Armed Service committee who had top seed clearance,
who investigated the phenomenon from twenty seventeen to last year,
and he’d sat in with a number of individuals that
were first hand witnesses that were high level clearances. And
I said to him, put me in that room. What
were the expressions on the senator’s faces as they heard
(30:58):
a first hand witness working on alien technology? And you’ve
got to hear it from the horse’s mouth because it’s phenomenal.
And this is what’s happening right now today in Washington
DC behind the scenes, very intense.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
It’s very exciting that we’re making this progress. Finally, it
feels good. Of course, it still feels glacial to me.
I’d like to see it move faster. When we come back,
we’re going to talk to James a little bit more
about the progress being made with our government, as well
as a case that he talks about called the Photograph.
You’re listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast
to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back on
(31:52):
Beyond Contact. We’re talking to James Fox. James, let’s talk
for a second about this case that’s in your film
called the Photograph.
Speaker 5 (32:00):
Oh it’s the best. So we had that film Moment
of Contact, and there’s that you discussion of photographic evidence
to the alleged crash that happened with live aliens walking
to the town. YadA, YadA, YadA, and people go like, oh, well,
where’s the photograph? And we’ve heard people talking about it,
and like, well, I’ve only been talking about it for
a couple of years knowing that it exists. It’s not
(32:20):
like I just give up case in point. I heard
about the calvine Ufo photograph back in the late nineties
when I was interviewing mod Nick Pope when he was
still at the Mood and I interviewed him for a
number of films, and I’d always pull him aside and say, Nick,
you had this incredible opportunity and you’re outspoken now to
investigate UFOs and in the fish capacity, like what was
(32:41):
the best case? And without hesitation, he always he’d always
say he never said Calvine. I don’t believe he said that,
but he would say, oh, there were these two hikers
in Scotland and it was daylight and there was this
massive diamond shaped craft hovering with a military jet flying
round it. Oh my, And I’d say, where’s the Oh.
(33:01):
You know, they did everything they could kill the story.
They had a big print of it as a poster
in the mod forever, like was always there and we
killed the story essentially. And I’d say to him, like, well,
clearly there must be former people that have retired that
are there. They didn’t throw the picture in the garbage.
Clearly they would do that, you know, Oh, I don’t know.
And you know, Nick was always he was always a
(33:23):
bit standoffish on that. Thank God to David Clark and
some people who work with him that they I think,
ultimately came upon a It was a redacted document released
by FOYA. This is a couple of years ago, and
it talked about one of the individuals that investigated the case,
RIF Press officer, and then it redacted his name. Well,
(33:44):
David Clark looked up RIF Press officer nineteen ninety in
Scotland and up popped this guy. Craig Lindsay looks him up.
Several years go by, correspondence back and forth. Craig Lindsay
kept one of the prints, so that’s how we know
about that print, thirty four years long or whatever. And
then Craig Lindsay, for the first time in history, gives
(34:04):
me an on camera interview, talks about he’s the only
person that we know that interviewed the witnesses. And then
at the last possible minute, again thank you, David Clark,
the last possible minute, one of the co workers with
the two witnesses came forward. His story is remarkable. I
think it’s one of the most remarkable bits of testimony
in the movie. And Lo and Behold, the better the evidence,
the better the case, the less likely it’s ever going
(34:25):
to see the light of day, and you know some
people in suits. Step In, I can give you a
thousand case examples about it. Step In and the evidence
photograph’s gone. Witness is gone.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
Because there are originally like five or six photographs like this.
Speaker 5 (34:40):
Right, five or six that’s exactly correct. Yes, yeah, And
I was told by Craig Lindsay that he’s seen all
of them. He’s in the movie. The Diamond Shape draft
has got a Harrier jump jet, so it’s stationary, right,
and the witnesses take photographs as it’s going around that
big disc, that big diamond shape thing. But there are
(35:01):
points of reference the ground, the fence, the tree like,
so they can get an estimation on the size and
all that stuff. So a lot of the study went
into those photographs. And the witness has vanished for thirty
four years, gone off the face of the earth.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
How great did he saved that photograph? And how great
that the photograph contains a military jet in it.
Speaker 5 (35:21):
I think it’s one of the best photographic cases in
modern history.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Then you have the testimony or you know, first hand
account of Nick Pope’s saying that he had an intelligence
officer come in and he said this picture it’s not
from US. It’s not from the United States. It’s from
any points straight out.
Speaker 5 (35:38):
That’s cool, fun, very very very good photograph, and it’s cool.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
I’d like to get a you know, we should sell
photos of that. That’s a cool like they.
Speaker 5 (35:47):
Have that is it really is black and white. It
looks cool. Act that I don’t have it on my wall.
I’m going to do that. I’m going to put it
on the wall here.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
It’s a glaring mistake.
Speaker 5 (35:55):
I’m going to do it. I’m going to put it
somewhere very big. I don’t maybe I’ll figure out a spot.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Yeah, So James in the US, where do we go
from here? Like, what’s next? I mean, I understand they’re
talking about more congressional hearings, which is great pertain people
like Mace and others have stated that they want to
bring in more witnesses, even nuclear facility military witnesses.
Speaker 5 (36:14):
What do you think A couple things I think need
to happen. This is according to people that I’ve talked to.
And I wouldn’t say I’ve got my finger on the
pulse as much as someone like Ross coltheart. I mean,
I’ve got my finger on the pulse somewhat, but not
like the level he does at this point, he’s doing
reporting weekly daily. You know, I go gather information and
(36:35):
then I make a documentary and try to make sense
of it all and make it presentable to mainstream. It’s
sort of my part in this whole thing, right, you know,
I wanted to take the last seven years and gapsulate
it into a film and sort of document this unprecedent
time in history.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
Right.
Speaker 5 (36:50):
But from what I gather, there’s a couple of things
that need to happen. One better legislation for the first handers.
Firsthanders have come in behind closed doors and divide in
a skip to members of Arrow and to City, members
of the Senate, and probably the House as well. Those
individuals are terrified not just for their careers, but their
(37:10):
personal safety. They feel that the current legislation that’s been
passed whistleblower protection is not sufficient enough. Yet another thing
that can happen, and I don’t know, I’m researching on
how this goes about, but they’re requesting immunity, so in
other words, they can violate their NDAs publicly under oath
in an open congressional hearings. So what we need is
(37:33):
is we need those firsthanders to feel enough security to
come forward and need to be provided immunity, and I
don’t know if that’s something the president can provide. I’m
actually looking into that right now with a number of
people like how is that going to happen? But that’s
what needs to happen, right Cool.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
You know, this film really has I don’t know how
to say it, more of a serious tone or whatever.
I just think the way it was laid out is
so great. It felt like one of these Frontline investigation pieces.
Speaker 5 (38:00):
Yeah. No, so I wondering you should say that because
I’ve always watched with great admiration Frontline. Just the way
they present documentaries is incredible, and I love the narrator’s
voice and I love I just love their style of
their editing style, the shooting style.
Speaker 4 (38:18):
Our narrators great.
Speaker 5 (38:19):
Yeah, he’s great. Yeah, Peter Cady is amazing. And Peter
Cardy’s narrated out of the Blue, he narrated the Phenomenon,
he narrated Moment of Contact, and now he’s narrated this film,
the Program, and he also narrated a film I did
call pretty slick about the BP oil spill. But in
any case, I’ve always studied their editing techniques, their style, presentation,
the pacing, because Washington DC is sort of the epicenter
(38:43):
for this unprecedented push right now for finding out what
the intel agencies really know. So I remember looking at
a House of Cards on Netflix and I just loved
this time lapse motion b roll. Right, So they put
these cameras on these train tracks, right, they build these tracks.
You get permits all across Washington, DC, and then they
(39:03):
put these cameras on these motorized tracks with wheels. And
then the cameras not only shoot really slowly for like
a time lapse, but they’re moving as well, right, So
they’ll move fifteen twenty feet from one side, and then
when you speed it up, they’re moving at a normal
speed and the sky’s going by really quickly, and it’s
a beautiful effect. And I remember contacting a number of
(39:25):
people in that industry and I said, look, have you
seen house cars?
Speaker 4 (39:29):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (39:29):
Okay, do you know the beat? Yes? I want that
and I want it better. So I ended up spending
a huge percentage of the budget on b ROLL because
I wanted it to be beautiful. I wanted to be
enjoyable to watch, and I wanted it to compete with
a very high end production such as A House of Cards.
Nowhere near the budget of that, like tiny little fraction. Yeah,
(39:50):
So we hired a van, a big van, loaded that
thing to the gills in Texas with all the gear
which is a lot, and throve two guys across country
all the way to DC and set up for a month,
over a month and shot d roll every single day
all across DC. And that’s what gives you the program thattful.
Those beautiful shots didn’t happen overnight.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
It was a lot of effort and absolutely worth it,
and it shows on the film.
Speaker 4 (40:15):
It’s really really great. I highly recommend it. Check it out.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
It’s available on Amazon and Apple TV as well.
Speaker 4 (40:21):
Yeah, hey man, well thanks a lot for coming on.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
I really really appreciate it. I’m good luck with this film.
I think it’s fantastic and thanks again for coming on.
Speaker 5 (40:29):
But hey, I really appreciate you having me on.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Thank you
