Guest Jay Christopher King joins Captain Ron to discuss the evolving nature of the UFO phenomenon, and different forms of non-human intelligence and contactee experiences. Christopher will discuss his new series The Beyond: UFOs & a New Reality, as well as conventional assumptions about UFO sightings, and alien encounters.
Episode Transcript
Captain Ron (00:44):
Hey everyone, it’s Captain Ron and each week on Beyond Contact,
we’ll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of
the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from
the newest cases as we talk with the top experts.
Speaker 5 (01:01):
Welcome to Beyond Contact. I am Captain Ron, and today
we’re going to be speaking with Jay Christopher King. Jay’s
the co founder of the Inquire Anomalist conference series. He’s
also the co founder of the newly formed production company
on Tocolyps Productions, who are gearing up right now for
the release of their new docuseries called The Beyond UFOs
and a New Reality. Jay is also the co founder
(01:24):
and the director of the Experiencer Group, which is a
private online community dedicated to supporting people who’ve had anomalous
experiences of all kinds. In fact, Jay does a mini
version of his experience or group sessions live for us
every year at Contact in the Desert, and we really
appreciate him being part of our team. It’s great to
see your brother.
Speaker 6 (01:45):
How are you, Oh, it’s wonderful to be here. I’m
doing great.
Speaker 5 (01:48):
How are you doing, Ron, I’m doing good. We’re getting
ready to dial in for next year. Fantastic far away,
but it’s going to come up quick, you know how.
Speaker 6 (01:57):
Oh my gosh, it sure is. Every year gets a
little bit quicker as we get older.
Speaker 5 (02:01):
Incredible, it’s incredible. It’s like this time dilation like an
experiencer would have we’re having now, you know what I mean.
Speaker 6 (02:09):
It’s so true, it’s so true.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
So man, You’ve had a lot of experience dealing with
different experiencers, working directly with them, talking with people who
claim to have had firsthand experiences with all sorts of
anomalist phenomena, specifically with regards to those who say have
had a contact with let’s call it an alien being.
I want to ask you do you see the same
(02:31):
sort of accounts over and over. Are there similar tent
poles to each of these accounts or do they vary?
Speaker 6 (02:38):
That’s a great question, Thanks Ron. They do very somewhat,
but yeah, I have dealt with hundreds of people that
have had either contact events or sightings. With regard to
nhis and UAPs, there are ten poles in terms of
people seeing grays, either short grays or tall grays. More
(03:00):
people see short grays than tall grays. If they report
having been in kind of like the medical situation or
on a craft or something like that, it seems much
more likely for them to see a tall grade than
a short gray. People report similar medical devices, and some
of those devices are much less reported in media, kind
(03:21):
of don’t make it to movies or TV shows and
things like that. As far as other characteristics that are
similar a lot of As you were mentioning, time dilation,
time dilation is an effect that it happens often where
people think that they experience something and it seems like
only maybe four minutes have past, and in fact it
was two or three hours. Or sometimes it happens the
(03:43):
other way, where something seems to have taken a very
long time but it’s actually pretty short when they look
at the clock.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
It seems to me like in three D life, time
is often distorted with any traumatic experience you ever see,
Like someone has a car accident, it’ll be three seconds
for the car accident. But when they describe it and
they’ll do a reenactment oftentimes on these shows, and they
said it felt like twenty minutes. I wonder if that’s
sort of a similar thing going on, that this is
a traumatic experience, therefore time gets manipulated in our head.
Speaker 6 (04:14):
I think that there’s a strong correlation there. Yeah, And
I think that that’s a really good observation run people
for years have commented on missing time. For example, I
mean that’s the title of Bud Hopkins’ classic book, one
of the first books on abduction experiences in general, Missing Time,
from nineteen eighty one. The thing is is that people
that have all sorts of trauma have missing time. There’s
(04:36):
a little bit of confusion there because for years people
assume that, oh, these powerful beings with their mysterious craft
that looks so weird, they must be able to erase
our memories. But in fact, if we look at medical data,
we can erase our own memories, and we do all
the time when things are just too challenging or too
(04:56):
stressful for us. So there’s really, you know, no pun intended,
but a gray area here where we have our own
recycle button, you know. And then there seems to be
a situation where these other beings may be able to
manipulate our memories as well.
Speaker 5 (05:14):
I think a lot of these experiencers have dealt with
different phenomenon as well, and I wanted to ask you
if you think they have the experience that they say
it is, or if they could be experiencing something different,
a different type of phenomenon, but they’re putting perhaps their
own lens on it, you know, through their own use
of labels or whatever, because we don’t know what to
(05:34):
call this stuff because it’s all unknown, and going back
through history, we have reports of people saying they saw
fairies come down from the trees, but somebody has a
similar experience today might call it I saw an alien
come down from the sky. What do you think Are
they having the same kind of experience and they’re putting
different labels or words on it, or do you think
these are distinct phenomenon.
Speaker 6 (05:55):
That’s a great question. I think that there is kind
of a vind diagram of these experiences. A very famous
case that comes to mind is one of the key
events in Our Lady of Fatima. The Portuguese sightings from
the early part of the twentieth century. There are thousands
and thousands of people that had these sightings that were
in Portugal and would see this luminous spinning plate looking
(06:19):
sun moving around the sky before these children would see
these beings. There’s a lot of challenging interpretations of that
particular case because even among the three children that would
have this sighting of what seemed like it was maybe
the Virgin Mary. That’s kind of the popular conception of it.
(06:39):
When you actually look at the descriptions and Portuguese of
like what this woman looked like. She was actually very small,
she didn’t have the traditional appearance of Mary per se,
and the smallest child actually said that the being wasn’t
a woman at all. It sometimes appeared to be like
a non human.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
Wow. Right, fascinating and from that long ago, see that’s right,
that’s example, Jade, nice, pull that out of your brain.
That’s very good man.
Speaker 6 (07:10):
People that would gather for these sightings, they would sometimes
hear something that sounded like a swarm of bees. That’s
another kind of secondary phenomenon that people report in close
contact experiences with UFOs as well. Some of the children
at the Rua Aerial School sighting in nineteen ninety four
reported a very similar sound seventy seven years later. All right, okay,
(07:33):
what does this tell us about perception? And is there
something about our brains that kind of like filter this
in in a certain way that starts to adopt certain
characteristics Or if we see something that’s that strange or
is coming in from what have you, another dimension outside
of our typical realm of perception, whatever that is, is
(07:54):
there something in our brains or are in our sensory
organs that bring in some of these aspects.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
Right?
Speaker 6 (08:03):
For example, Nick Cook, who I’m sure you know Nick
Cook calls these figures rogue icons, and I like that
where he doesn’t call it, you know, a religious figure,
he doesn’t call it a gray he doesn’t try to
put a name on it. He calls it a rogue icon,
almost as if it’s like a chess piece that’s like
coming in from some other realm and that we just
(08:24):
need to have kind of like a more general placeholder
term for something like that.
Speaker 5 (08:29):
I totally agree with him. I think that’s part of
the problem. And you can imagine how back then at
Fatima it was probably a much more religious society, and
they framed it immediately. They might, well, it must be Mary,
where today you might jump to it might must be
an alien. Right. Yeah, I get angry because people often
jump to it must be an alien way prematurely from
(08:49):
my view. Let me ask you this, Jay, do you
do you think that any of these stories you hear
have more of a three D terrestrial explanation, like maybe
it’s a misunderstood dream state or misidentification of a projection
on a wall, or somebody’s imagination kind of getting away
from them. What do you think I think that does happen.
Speaker 6 (09:07):
You know, it is important to remember that that some
people really do have very severe mental illnesses, and that
some people you know, suffer from delusions and they can
be perceptual hallucinations, and that some people, especially maybe if
they have profound drug or alcohol issues, especially you know,
drug issues. I don’t know many people that drink and
(09:29):
then see things, you know, that’s not usually a situation
that happens like that, But some drugs will produce hallucinatory effects.
Of course, you know, I’m not a pharmacologist, but I
would imagine that there are some prescribed drugs that might
lead someone towards more hallucinations than others. And at the
same time, there is such a uniformity and going back
(09:53):
decades and like we’re talking about even centuries with similar
phenomena that we just want to put a name on.
Luminous shield shaped craft coming down from the sky. I mean,
this goes back to the Roman era, it goes back
beyond that even and there’s something to it. You know,
if we look in old Celtic and fairy lore, there’s
(10:14):
a lot of tales of strange beings and ships coming
out of the water, and that really mirror a very contemporary,
almost like a fashionable thing to talk about these days
within UFOs, which is usocases and trans medium craft.
Speaker 5 (10:30):
Look how you said they called it shields because it
looked like a shield. That was their frame of reference.
And I think it’s been going on throughout time that
this is such an unknown thing for the human experience
that we don’t know how to describe it because we
don’t have the vocabulary for it. When we come back
We’re going to talk to Jay about what he thinks
some of these experiences may be originating from you’re listening
(10:51):
to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
AM Paranormal podcast network.
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Speaker 5 (12:16):
We are back on Beyond Contact. Jay. Let me ask
you this about the Experiencer Group. What are people looking for?
Do you think when they come there, is it validation
that this might be real? Are they looking for how
to stop it? Are they looking for explanations? What are
they looking for?
Speaker 6 (12:31):
All of the above. Absolutely, it’s a great question. Some
people do come to the Experiencer Group for validation, just
to frame it up. The Experiencer Group again, it’s a
private member site online. You can find it through tg
members dot com, dedicated to support curiosity and community for
those who’ve lived through anomalous events of any and all kinds.
(12:52):
So that could be UAP encounters, non human intelligence, near
death experiences, out of body experiences, precognition. There’s people that
have seen cryptids, hauntings, all manner of anomalous experiences. Because
what we find in the group is that, you know,
if somebody’s had one form of anomalous experience, it’s actually
somewhat likely that eventually, later down the line, they’ll report
(13:16):
something else. Maybe that’s because we don’t have great definitions
for what this really is, or even when something really
begins and when something ends as an event, because often
when we really dig into details, there’s precursor events or
things that are kind of after effects of these situations
(13:38):
that look like other anomalous events that might be really
tied to that kind of core event itself. People will
often report before UFO sidings like pultugeist activity or right afterwards.
That’s a really kind of inconvenient truth. Absolutely, and people
have reported that, like George Knapp and Colin Kella hur
talked about in that in Skinwalk of the Pentagon, and
(14:01):
there are other works. There does seem to be a
tie with what people think of as pultugeist activity with
UFO activity, And of course historically we look at poultugeist
activity as being close to ghosts or people that have died,
but we don’t actually know that to be the case.
We don’t know that to be literally true. Pulture geised
activity does seem to be sometimes tied to a specific place,
(14:23):
a certain physical location or a certain house, and we
assume that has to do with the life of somebody beforehand,
but we don’t know that maybe a leap that we
make exactly, Yes, absolutely, and so that’s a leap that
we make. And it’s also a leap to suggest that
just because something an object moves around or disappears and
reappears in a situation that seems to be connected with
(14:47):
a quote unquote haunting. We don’t necessarily know that that’s
a ghost of an actual being, and we don’t know
why that happens in general, and why that can’t be
a transferable phenomenon or something that also happens in situations
like in UAP cases where some craft or some being
seems to blip in from out of nowhere. Those kinds
(15:09):
of biases tend to limit reporting because, you know, when
somebody sees something like this, like a ghost or a
UFO or a gray or what have you, there’s often
a form of self censorship that happens because they don’t
want to, you know, seem crazy. But then that will
limit the data that you get. For example, with grays,
(15:31):
sometimes they appear to be naked, right, they don’t appear
to have genitals, but they appear to be naked. But
to prior generations that often seemed like too far. For
some reason, there’s a weird being. It looked really strange,
and by the way, it was naked, and we all
get it.
Speaker 5 (15:46):
That’s the fact that there’s this bug looking thing in
my room, but oh my god, naked. Yeah, I even
think of that. Yeah, right, yeah, but.
Speaker 6 (15:54):
There’s so many cases where they’ll come out later and say,
like it was actually naked. We need to hear what
actually happened. We need to hear those actual details so
that a we can corroborate these cases amongst each other,
but also so we can figure out what the heck
is actually going on exactly.
Speaker 5 (16:09):
Let’s talk about that. What are some of the options
of what could be happening here with regarding the visitation
of any of these non human intelligences. To me, it
seems like years ago it was a very straightforward topic,
but now it seems like there’s all these different possible modalities,
these different schools of thought. Are they coming from across
the galaxy? Are they interstellar? Are they interdimensional? Are they
(16:32):
ultra terrestrial or crypto terrestrial? You know the John Keele
idea that a species evolved alongside of humans but it
remained hidden with their own technology. Or are the extra
tempestrial the doctor Michael Master’s idea that they’re from the
future and they’re coming back to see how we developed.
There’s so many of these things. What do you think
could be happening?
Speaker 6 (16:52):
I think it could be all of the above. Yeah,
I think it could be any and all. I mean,
I love John Keel’s work. You know, there’s a lot
of material in there that goes back decades that we’re
still we’re still behind, you know, the central conversations about
UFOs are still sometimes years behind. But Keil was talking
about forty eight plus years ago.
Speaker 5 (17:13):
I was just going to say here that you were
saying the different ways of perception right there. You know,
maybe there’s a way we’re just not fully seeing these
non human entities. Just a few weeks ago, we did
a show on October fourth on Perspective and one of
the examples we used was what if you lived next
door to a radio station and it had a giant
antenna in the front yard. Even though you live right
(17:33):
next door and they’re blasting out all this information, you
can’t hear it. You need a receiver. So let’s say
you even do have a receiver. Beyond that, you’ve got
to tune it into the exact right frequency that they’re broadcasting.
If you’re off by one millimeter, you still can’t sit
here what they’re saying. Maybe these other entities are just
a little bit off and we’re just not able to
(17:53):
perceive them.
Speaker 6 (17:54):
Yet absolutely Yeah, there’s a term in semiotics that gets
at this, and something that’s often used by biologists and
even by anthropologists. It’s called umvelt and it’s a German
term that means environment, specifically about the specific way organisms
of a particular species experience the world, which is dependent
(18:15):
on their sensory organs and perceptual systems. We cover this
in our upcoming docu series that there’s a certain kind
of tick and this tick can only detect a certain
form of butaric acid that animals secrete on their skin
like we do. It can sense changes in heat, so
it can figure out and drop down or move over
(18:35):
to an animal and begin the process of sucking their blood.
But you know, think about all the different kinds of
data that it doesn’t get when the tick is, you know,
sucking blood from your artron. It doesn’t know that you
produce contact in the desert. It doesn’t know that you
do a podcast. It doesn’t know what a podcast is.
It has no idea. Yeah, it has no idea. And like, similarly,
(19:01):
like we could be suffering. Similarly, infrared technology is more
available to the masses. More people are seeing UFOs in
the sky. You know, there are a lot more situations
like infrared, that we could still be on the precipice
of even knowing about where these other beings may be hiding.
We could be on the precipice of these kinds of
(19:23):
discoveries like infrared that could point us towards where some
of these beings are hiding.
Speaker 5 (19:29):
Absolutely, we could be just that one millimeter off. I
absolutely believe that, you know, there’s so many new ways
of thinking about this topic. Jay, Earlier we were saying,
how we make this leap that ghosts are dead people,
or you know, we make this connection. There’s also this
question of our UFOs and aliens even tied together. Someone
(19:50):
said this to me recently, and it actually may have
been Whity as a matter of fact, that it’s possible
that these visitation experiences don’t necessarily have anything to do
with UFO craft per se. What do you think about that?
Speaker 6 (20:03):
I think that that’s really really interesting, And I’ve heard
similar possibilities from Whitley himself and other experiencers that there
are only limited cases where people see a craft and
a non human intelligence like a gray for example, or
you know, some people report manted beings or Nordics or
(20:24):
other kind of more marginal figures. But it’s often the
case that when people see one of these beings, what
they’re more seeing is, you know, something showing up in
their living room or their bedroom. Right, there are a
lot of cases. Historically, we don’t get many anymore, and
I think it’s important to also name this that the
(20:45):
data does seem to suggest that there is a high
point of abduction cases and similar cases. They’re really peaked
in the eighties and nineties and then seem to kind
of trail off. There are still people reporting situations like this,
but the case numbers have fallen off quite a bit,
and there’s a lot of kind of debate about whether
that’s people still being quite about things. But the people
(21:06):
that are still reporting this generally it started for them
in the eighties and nineties, and it seems to be
kind of more like a checkup rather than like a
new situation.
Speaker 5 (21:15):
Right, And we wondered, you know, does it mean that
they’re getting visited less or it seems like it’s a
more open environment to come out with this information. Now
you think the number would go think, but maybe whoever’s
doing this got what they needed and they don’t need
to do it as often we don’t know. It’s so
hard to talk about these things because they’re all unknowns. Absolutely,
(21:35):
we got to take a break there. Jay. When we
come back, we’re going to talk to Jay about his
new docuseries on the UFO and alien subject and how
it takes a different approach than we’ve seen in the past.
You’re listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast
to Coast AM paranormal podcast network.
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Speaker 5 (23:18):
We are back on Beyond Contact. I am Captain Ron
and we’re talking with Jay King about his new docuseries. So, Jay,
I like the name for your production company, even though
I can’t pronounce it. But it’s on Tocolypse, which your
site defines as an unveiling of a new reality, often
leading to a state of internal chaos and a profound
paradigm shift in philosophical and existential frameworks. We probably do
(23:43):
need a new way to look at this topic, as
we’ve been discussing here. I mean, I think one of
the biggest problems today is that this topic is generally
portrayed in the media incorrectly. They treat this topic like
a genre, and they don’t often take it right from
the actual experiencers, as we’ve seen in many films time
and time again. You’ve worked in TV production for years.
(24:04):
Why can’t Hollywood actually tell us the experience or story
exactly how it happened. Isn’t it incredible enough that this
guy met somebody from another world?
Speaker 6 (24:14):
I really appreciate this question. Thanks Ron. It’s historically been
an extraordinary challenge for Hollywood writers, directors, et cetera to
get it right. I mean, one of the closest examples
that you can find is Close Encounters of the Third
kind was Steven Spielberg. There you had a very close
case that had a lot of the high strangeness elements
and kind of this strange other phenomena that surround these situations.
(24:39):
I think one of the biggest problems here is that
writers in Hollywood and in TV in general, and in
movies tend to get a little bit lazy. In formulaic
they want a movie to obey a three acts structure.
They want to get in and out in ninety to
one hundred and ten minutes, and similarly with TV shows,
they wanted to make sense in twenty three minutes or
(25:00):
forty four minutes with ad breaks. And that can be really,
really challenging for some of these stories because often with experiencers,
they can’t really tell you where something began or where’s
something ended. They might only have fragmentary memories of something
like this, or they might kind of associate development where
it’s like, well, this happened, but that seemed to really
(25:20):
be high strangeness synchronicity where I was having a telepathic
contact and it was referencing this weird dream I had
twenty years ago. These are the kind of details that
when you add them together, they present this kind of
absurd quality that Jacques Vilat talked about a lot in
books like Messengers of Deception. There’s a co creative element,
(25:41):
and there seems to be an element where some of
these intelligences are able to access our own personal history,
our own personal symbology, and our own recollection of time,
regardless of its accuracy or not. That seems to be
the land that some of these beings can live in.
And TV and movie we are watching conversations happen, we’re
(26:02):
watching activity occur. Much of the land of high strangeness
lives in the world of the symbolic and lives within
the realm of referencing our own personal histories that take
a lot kind of more backstory than a ninety minute
feature can account for. There are kind of other inconvenient
elements that does seem to be like a corollary maybe
(26:26):
between for example, out of body experiences and abduction experiences.
People often are talking about something like a subtle realm,
some like non ordinary state of perception that exists in
an out of body situation where for some reason, somebody’s
consciousness is able to temporarily relocate outside their body. There
(26:47):
are situations like sleep paralysis where people will report like
a weird buzzing and that their body’s frozen, but they
have perceptual awareness and sometimes they see beings or have
experiences or able to leave their body in a situation
like that. However, they’re tethering it to what it’s called
sleep paralysis. But the reality is that we don’t even
(27:07):
really know what sleep paralysis is. We’ll use it as
a blanket concept for a whole range of situations.
Speaker 5 (27:15):
Remember that guy that came up with the god helmet. Yeah,
you could trigger a certain part of your brain and
you would see a bright light in beings that very
much replicated the abduction experience. So there may be some
other thing happening here.
Speaker 6 (27:28):
That’s right, And so you know, there are some theories
about like does out of body experience give you access
to this kind of more liminal or more perceptually challenging
state where these beings more naturally reside And I don’t
know that to be the case. I’m not sure that
grays just perpetually reside in a realm that’s just adjacent
(27:49):
to us. It’s a convenient theory, like the convenient theory
of them flying in ships from another world. We have
all these ideas, and they may all be true. They
may also be a little bit wrong. We often think
about the misinformation aspect that we receive from our own
government or the military industrial complex, but we sometimes avoid
(28:13):
or forget the aspect where we might be receiving a
ton of misinformation from these other beings themselves.
Speaker 5 (28:20):
Even if you talk to experi answers, they don’t know.
We’re all speculating and guessing, So this is very difficult.
You guys seem to have taken a little bit of
a different approach on this topic with this new company,
in this new docuseries. Tell me how that how you
have a different approach.
Speaker 6 (28:35):
Thanks so much for the question.
Speaker 5 (28:36):
Ron.
Speaker 6 (28:36):
With the beyond UFOs and a New Reality, we were
really looking at what has happened in TV recently in
recent years, and there are often series that are very
grounded and have more kind of credible experts talking about
a situation looking at it. For a writer from a
director’s perspective. They’re looking at like, how do I prove
(28:58):
this case to somebody that doesn’t leave in this And
then on the other hand, you have shows that are
completely ungrounded that you know, we’ll bring in anybody and
say like, oh, this must be aliens. That’s aliens. You know,
the researchers themselves don’t have much credibility to them. They’ve
just been in the field for a while. Those shows
can be great as well, they can be a lot
of fun, But we’re trying to carve like a different
(29:20):
path through the middle where we wanted to unshackle credible
researchers and kind of start with the general premise that yes,
there’s fundamental reality here. Now let’s have deeper discussions about
what that means and so being able to really present
hypotheses that go beyond what we normally see on television
where it’s like, okay, maybe they aren’t extraterrestrial, maybe or
(29:43):
maybe they sometimes are, but like, let’s talk about the
crypto terrestrial hypothesis, let’s talk about extra tempstrials, let’s talk
about all this stuff. Where do we go from there
and what does that mean about the nature of our
reality itself?
Speaker 5 (29:56):
The process of doing that will help us flush some
of this out. And I wanted to ask you, why
do you think that most people don’t seem to take
many of these first person cases, these accounts seriously? Why
do you think people struggle to accept this?
Speaker 6 (30:12):
I think some people struggle to accept it because it
just never touches their lives. I understand how many of the.
Speaker 5 (30:19):
Things that don’t touch my life that I accept.
Speaker 6 (30:21):
Sure, I’ve never been to Russia, but I trust that
it exists, right. But it’s challenging for people. I think
partially because I mean John Keel. We talked about John
Keel a little bit earlier. John Keel in the Eighth Tower,
he writes about how I’m going to paraphrase here, that
about ten to fifteen percent of the populace is able
to receive information like this, meaning the actual anomalous events themselves,
(30:46):
and then that other people are dealing with it secondhand,
that core kind of ten to fifteen percent are really
dealing with it on a more regular basis, and that
it might have to do more with like difference in
perception between one person in another and then other people
might have a one off event. So I think that
part of it comes down to the idea that, like
(31:07):
something that seems so fantastic and unbelievable, some people think
that that could only happen once, as if it would
be like the equivalent of getting struck by lightning. But
for example, a haunted house really exists, and that ghosts
really kind of pervade that space, or that Poltugeist activity
could be happening on a regular basis, then we have
(31:27):
to confront the possibility or the probability that these things
might happen much more often for certain people than others.
Speaker 5 (31:35):
But I’m curious as to why people like a vy Lobe,
John Mack and their respected worldwide then they talk about
this topic and suddenly they don’t know what they’re talking about.
It doesn’t seem right to dismiss these guys.
Speaker 6 (31:48):
I completely agree with you. I mean, John Mack, I’m
really glad you brought up doctor mac so he was
kind of like the perfect person as the head of
psychiatry at Harvard, who is an expert on nightmares and
dream states and childhood psychology to be then looking at
cases of what we’re thought of as abductions.
Speaker 5 (32:10):
If we want to study these people and say, oh,
my god, these people are crazy. Well, let’s bring in
the top guy in the world in psychology and have
him look at this. He does, then he comes to
the conclusion that they’re not having a delusion, that it’s
something else. Why can’t we accept this expert’s opinion. That’s
what frustrates me.
Speaker 6 (32:26):
There’s the truism within science that science progresses one funeral
at a time, and sometimes that just has to be
the case. That as we’ve been talking about here, and
as I’ve talked with you in the pastor on, there
is so much academic stigma. Avlobe faces it as well.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
It’s incredible not to mention all of the military witnesses
that we haven’t even touched on. These are highly decorated, respectable,
trustworthy guys. We’re going to take another break there. When
we come back, we’re going to talk to Jay more
about this topic and get into his personal experiences. Listening
to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
(33:03):
am Paranormal podcast network. Hey, it’s the Wizard of Weird
Joshua P.
Speaker 6 (33:13):
Warren.
Speaker 5 (33:14):
Don’t forget to check out my show Strange Things.
Speaker 10 (33:17):
Each week as I bring you the world of the
truly amazing and bizarre right here on the iHeartRadio and
Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
Speaker 5 (33:35):
Hey, it’s producer Tom and you’re right where you need
to be. This is the iHeart Radio and Coast to
Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
Speaker 8 (33:54):
Hey, this is George Nap and you’re listening to the
iHeart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
Speaker 5 (34:09):
We are back on Beyond Contact. We’re having a great
conversation today with Jay Christopher King. Jay, you’ve had your
own anomalous experiences. How did these experiences change your life?
Speaker 6 (34:20):
Thanks for asking. Ron. You know, I have my own
personal biases in terms of like what I really pay
attention to. I think a lot of people, if they
know my name, am usually tied to UFOs and that’s
for good reason though. Also when I was a kid,
I lived in a house that was thought of as haunted,
starting when I was about six years old in Mishawaka, Indiana.
(34:40):
There’s a lot of strange phenomena there. Poultrygeist activity, strange
shadows on the walls, lights going on and off, apparitions.
My father, who is a retired electrical engineer, really wanted
it to be an electrical problem. It still didn’t account
for the strange shadows, the apparition in the Poultergeist activity.
(35:01):
And then when he did check the electrical systems in
the house, the lights going on and off didn’t have
a conventional explanation either. My mom, I, my little baby sister,
my dad were all deeply troubled by this phenomenon that
was happening in the house. Then several years later, I
did have an experience in Hanover, Indiana. After my mom
(35:25):
and dad divorced, my mom remarried, we moved down there
and I had a typical abduction experience. I was in
my bed and there were two short grays passed the
foot of my bed, one of them I was about nine.
I was about nine nine and a half years old.
There were two grays passed the foot of my bed,
and one of them had his feet on the ground,
(35:46):
and one of them seemed to be levitating slightly. I
don’t know how I was levitating. I didn’t even have
like a conception of what these beings were. You know,
this is the eighties. What people would have known from
a gray before for that point would have been close
encounters Widley’s book may have just come out, But again
I was a small child. I wouldn’t have known about that.
Speaker 5 (36:07):
And you do hear about the levitation thing. Even Calvin
Parker thought that they didn’t walk, that they levitated. There’s
many examples, that’s right.
Speaker 6 (36:15):
And so I saw it levitating, and that one was
holding a strange like rod in its hand, like a
metallic rod. Initially I wasn’t scared. I was just like
really interested. I didn’t know what these things were. But
then they didn’t really engage with me. There was no smiles,
there were no greetings, there was no welcome. The one
on the ground started walking towards me in kind of
(36:37):
a hurried manner that looked almost marionette like like. Its
movement was freaky, and the other one that was levitating
raised that weird rod towards me. I don’t remember what
happened after that, so it was a very very short situation,
but it ingrained in my memory. Of course, there are
(36:58):
a few other situations that happened just after that, within
that next period of time, where I saw a singular
being like that. Again, you know, again, I don’t know
where these beings come from. I don’t know why they
do what they do. I don’t know why these events
happened so often in the eighties and nineties and then
some before that, but those grays showing up less over time,
(37:20):
since I just know that I have the memory of
it happening. I remember it happening at the time. I
think it’s fascinating. And for a lot of years I
had the challenge of being like, Okay, I lived in
a haunted house, and then this other thing happened to me.
I don’t know how to square that away. And I
recognized that even just having the one experience sounds kind
(37:42):
of nuts, and then when you add something onto it
that’s just so different, it could sound completely insane. And
then I started recognizing that other people had the situation too,
And now there’s situations like people like Whitley. Whitley talks
about his dead wife Ann Streeber commenting on this all
the time. In terms of the connections between hauntings and
UFO activity, Joshua Cutchen in recent years wrote a series
(38:06):
of books called Ecology of Souls that really touches on
this as well. And there does seem to be some
profound connection between hauntings and poltergeist activity, UFO activity and
for lack of a better term, like our lives or
our deaths. And I don’t exactly understand what that all is,
but that’s why we have to keep investigating this. By
(38:29):
me talking about it. I didn’t like talking about this stuff.
I didn’t want to be a public figure. It was
actually Ralph Blumenthal and Leslie that kind of convinced me
to actually come forward in a public way with an
article that was originally going to be published in the
New York Times back in twenty twenty one and was
(38:50):
narrowly rejected by some New York Times editors that Ralph
wrote Ralph Blumenthal and was eventually published in the Debrief.
Before that, I had no interest in actually kind of
coming forward myself. I liked being private. I liked being
quiet about this stuff, and I liked holding experience or
support groups without putting my name on this publicly.
Speaker 5 (39:11):
A lot of other people in the world probably want
to keep this private as well, So there are may
be many other people with these experiences. We just don’t
hear about them because they don’t want to do that exactly.
Speaker 6 (39:21):
It happens all the time. It happens all the time,
and I know people that are engineers, doctors, lawyers, like
people that have prominent positions in insurance companies, like all
sorts of folks that have the kinds of credible jobs.
They need to be seen as sensible, They need to
be seen as reasonable, rational people.
Speaker 5 (39:42):
And all the therapists say that all the time. They said,
everybody that comes through here, you wouldn’t believe they’re celebrities.
They’re doctors, they’re lawyers, their firemen.
Speaker 6 (39:50):
Exactly, Musicians, artists, actors. Yeah, it really crosses the gamut.
And you’d think with some of these, like artists and musicians,
like some of those are a little bit more able
to speak about this. And so we have these associations
of aliens and artists and kind of creative types, and
there is some fundamental truth to that. But I feel
(40:11):
if I really added up, I might know just as
many engineers as I do artists that have had these occurrences.
Speaker 5 (40:17):
There you go, Hey, before we let you go, I
want to ask you what your thoughts are on disclosure,
like meaning the big D government disclosure.
Speaker 6 (40:26):
Yeah, disclosure. It’s a tricky topic, right because we’ve seen
so much movement in the field since the December twenty
seventeen article Deed Leslie and Ralph and Heleen Cooper wrote
that really outed a tip and lou Alzando and Chris
Millan and those amazing cockpit videos that you know, everybody
in the world has seen it by this point seemingly.
(40:48):
You know, I was at the Grush hearing last year
with David Fraver and Ryan Graves. It was a really
fascinating thing. It really felt like we were seeing a
new chapter. And I think that that is the And
at the same time, this is a situation where, if
we’re going to be completely frank, there are people that
have been managing the top and the bottom of this
(41:09):
conversation for years, and so there have been people from
the Pentagon, from the DoD, from other agencies that have
been managing the skep more skeptical side of things, like
through Arrow for example, Shawn Kirkpatrick and folks like that
that seem credible. There are people like Chris Millan that say, oh,
you know that Era report, that’s one of the most disappointing,
(41:31):
thinnest and least believable documents that I’ve ever seen in
my decades within government, in the military and the intelligence comunity,
and I agree with that, but I also think that,
you know, people like Shawn Kirkpatrick exist mainly to be
bad guys, if you want to think about it this way,
there are aspects of the disclosure movement that we really
(41:53):
have to be careful about. Because as much as we’re
pushing the ball forward and as much as we’re seeing progress,
you know, through the work of great people like Danny
Shean and you know the courageous, you know, heroic efforts
of people like Grush, et cetera, you also have elements
where there are people that have had a history within
military and intelligence, even the ones that are advocating for
(42:15):
more transparency, they’re still working for the same departments that
are putting out these arrow reports, right, And so then
you have to you have to find yourself in a
position where it’s like, well, why won’t this person really
say why they still work for this department? Why won’t
they just say what they do? Why won’t they even
(42:37):
tell you what their job description really is? And then
you get to a position where you’re like, Okay, well,
you know there’s an aspect to Capital D disclosure that
is managed and it’s a hall of mirrors. That’s intentional
and it’s from people managing both sides of the conversation.
So you’ve got people like Sean Kirkpatrick that are supposed
to be the heel. They’re supposed to be the bad guy.
(42:58):
And then you see other people who I won’t name,
that are supposed to look like the Hall Coogans. They’re
supposed to look like the stone called Steve Austin’s. And
what you have to realize is us as a populist.
They’re supposed to be magnetized towards one of those pillars
or the other pillar. But you’re still paying your money
to the World Wrestling Entertainment Company.
Speaker 5 (43:17):
Right right, it’s all suspect. Hey, thanks, Jay, I really
appreciate you coming on sharing all these insights. It’s been
really great. Do you have a release date for the
Beyond UFOs and a new reality yet?
Speaker 6 (43:28):
So we’re looking at the end of the year, right
around the holidays, and we’ll have a specific date for
folks just in the few weeks ahead.
Speaker 5 (43:35):
Awesome. Thanks for listening to Beyond Contact. We will be
back next week with an all new episode.
Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
AY and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out
all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going
to iHeartRadio dot com
