Captain Ron welcomes prolific author Kevin Randle, discussing his decades of research into UFO phenomena. Kevin, author of over 150 books, shares key findings from groundbreaking cases, including the iconic 1947 Roswell incident. He also reveals cases he now considers less credible. This episode blends classic UFO investigations with fresh insights into the evolution of ufology, revealing both enduring enigmas and debunked theories within the field of extraterrestrial research.
Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 (00:02):
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Beyond Contact with Captain Rong.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and
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(00:41):
your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Hey everyone, it’s Captain rang And. Each week on Beyond Contact,
we’ll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of
the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from
the newest cases as we talk with the top experts.
Welcome to another episode of Beyond Contact. I am Captain
Ron and today I have the pleasure of speaking with
(01:19):
mister Kevin Randall. Kevin’s retired lieutenant colonel who served in
Vietnam as a helicopter pilot and in Iraq as a
battalion intelligence officer. He is simply a prolific author who’s
written over one hundred and twenty five books. He’s written
countless articles for print, and even has an ongoing blog.
He can be heard every week on Coast to Coast AM.
(01:40):
As one of the pre eminent experts in our community,
we all owe him a debt of gratitude for all
his countless hours of investigating various cases over the last
fifty years plus. He’s tracked down loads of information and
most importantly, facts on various cases in the UFO community.
Hey Kevin, welcome sir to beyond contact.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Hi you doing.
Speaker 5 (02:00):
I’m glad to be here, finally excellent.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
I must tell you how much I appreciate you, or,
as you put it, dispassionate research into many of these
UFO cases. I was just on actually with George Nory
last week and I shared that I felt, from my view,
many of the people in the UFO community often jump
too quickly to say it’s aliens, or they’re too quick
to believe a story. On the other hand, many people
(02:24):
outside of our community are too quick to dismiss everything
out of hand. So I do love how seriously you
scrutinize each detail and get to the bottom of these things.
These cases aren’t so solid anymore once you get to
the bottom of them, right, there.
Speaker 5 (02:38):
Is always an ongoing investigation. I think some of the
older cases, some of the really prominent cases that we’ve
been talking about, once you get access to all the
information and through the Internet and other contacts, we now
were able to do that where we hadn’t had that
opportunity before. We learned things about those cases that call
them into question. So yeah, there is there are problems
(02:58):
like that. They’re also cases where we were able to
solidify them and provide additional information corroboration, so it works
both ways.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Yeah, And of course we only need one to be genuine, right,
I mean, that’s the thing, so I’d rather eliminate all
these that don’t apply, so we get down to the
meat of it. You know, when you get to the
bottom of a case and you feel it’s not genuine,
do you think that they’re lying in your view, or
maybe they’re trying to get fame or money or something,
or do you find that usually they think it’s genuine
(03:29):
and they’re just making a misidentification.
Speaker 5 (03:32):
Perhaps, yes, all the above. Certainly there’s part of that
where people are searching for the spotlight, which is a
powerful draw to get themselves mentioned in the newspapers or
interviewed for documentaries. There is a belief by some that
if you get into the right area, there might be
great deals of money to be earned in that way.
(03:53):
And there’s some people who just make legitimate mistakes and
are convinced they’ve seen something off world or something on you,
and we can look at it and say, well, this
is what happened. The best example of that is a
case from Utah, and the researcher was told about a
woman who had seen a hovering UFO and behind the
(04:13):
cockpit windows or whatever, she could see the alien creatures.
And they went out to the location the next day
where she had made the siding, and lo and behold,
the thing was back. Frank Salisbury went out and in
the woods a little bit of ways he found some
teenagers who were launching those old hot air balloons that
were prevalent in the late seventies and eighties, and he
(04:34):
asked them, were you guys here last night? And they
said yes, And he said, well, I’ve now saw him
the siding. And he went back and talked to the
woman he said, who’d identified originally that the thing is
what she’d seen the night before. I said, no, no,
that’s not what I had seen. So she was convinced
she had seen something off worldly. We have an explanation,
she just was not willing to accept it. So it’s
a little bit of everything, I think when you get
into it, the other side of the corner of the
(04:55):
people who don’t want to be associated with UFOs and
don’t want their nagas imagine it, or t telling a
story that they feel needs to be told, but without
the ability to name the source, and it loses some
of its credibility.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
And I understand today that you know, with social media
and whatnot, the proliferation of all these sort of tools,
I think that people do want notoriety or want to
go viral or whatever. But what about these cases from
the fifties, sixties and seventies. Do you think there were
a lot of people still trying to do hoaxes or lying?
Was there still enough quote unquote fame.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
Even though we didn’t have social media back then, there
was a certain desire to either get their names in
the newspaper or to find themselves on television. And it
worked for some people, and it didn’t work for others,
but there was some of that going on. When we’ve
chased some of the cases down. Ninety nine percent of
the picture were taken by teenage boys, and ninety nine
(05:49):
percent of those were hoaxes. Go and what we found
is later in life they come forward and they say, yeah,
you know, I was young and foolish and I thought
it would be a great joke. And sometimes he got
out of hand, and sometimes it was designed specifically to
get them some kind of local notoriety, So you have
(06:11):
to take a look at that. One of the exceptions
would be Carl Hart, who took photographs of the Lubbic
lights back in September of nineteen fifty one. I was
able to interview him in the mid nineteen nineties. I
was in Lubbock doing research and on a lark, looked
his name up in the phone book and there it was.
So I called him on the phone to chat with
him about it, and he said he still didn’t know
(06:34):
what he had photographed. He was still confused by it.
So that would be the exception for the rule. I
think the pictures are interesting and show a V shaped
formation flying over Lubbic, Texas, who was described literally by
hundreds of people over a period of several weeks back
in the early nineteen fifties, and he was able to
get pictures of these of the formation. There have been
(06:55):
others who say, sid, well, it’s a hoax. He made
the whole thing up. I’m thinking by the time you
get to the nineteen nineties and he’s in his sixties now,
that he would have said, yeah, you know, you know,
it was just something I did. But he was still
confused by what he had photographed. So I mean that
would be the exception that kind of proves the rule.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Sure. I love how often you just back in the day,
would just look up somebody in the phone book and
it was and then you’d get them. That’s pretty incredible,
But you had to have the phone book to look
them up.
Speaker 5 (07:25):
That literally hundreds of phone books. Early in the early
days of computers, there were a number of CDs that
you could get with the phone books from around the country,
and so you could look people up. Knowing where people
live was critical to finding them back in the old days,
and you could call directory assistance. I called directory assistants
in New Mexico and I was able to get Bill
(07:48):
Brasel’s phone number, didn’t know exactly where he lived, you know,
the director assistance in New Mexico. They gave me the
phone number.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
That’s a bygone era. So some of these people were
lying and some of them were misidedifications. Have you ever
found cases where you thought perhaps there was some intentional
disinformation involved.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
Bob Cornette and I were doing research early on before
I got involved with KUFOS and some of the other people,
and we talked to a guy who claimed that he
had taken a weather balloon into a city to display
it to explain the UFO siding. Later on we discovered
what he was talking about was Roswell. Now I know
of nobody who actually did that. I don’t know of
(08:29):
anything that happened like that, but that would seem to
be an instance of disinformation because he was talking about
tides to the military, and the military talkdum into doing
this or ordered him to do this sort of thing.
That’s the one case where I would really suspect disinformation.
A lot of what we would think of disinformation as
really misinformation, and it comes from inside the UFO community.
(08:51):
And the best example I can think of that as
MGA twelve. I think of that as being wholly created
inside the UFO committey. In fact, Bill Moore had mentioned
to a number of people, including Stan Friedman and Brad Sparks.
I believe he was thinking of creating it Roswell type
document because he’d taken the investigation as far as he
could and there were people who wouldn’t talk to him,
(09:11):
and he thought if I had a document and it
showed others were talking, that maybe they would be a
little bit freer with the information. And so he did
create the MG twelve documents. I think there’s pretty clear
evidence of that. In my opinion, that’s what happened. But
the point is people have pointed to that as possibility
of disinformation. I think it’s misinformation. I think it was
created inside the UFO community for a specific purpose. I
(09:36):
don’t think it was disinformation created by whoever was running
the investigation. That’s something else. Again. I don’t think that
MJ twelve ever existed as such. Now we hear about
I guess it’s the Legacy Program or the Legacy Project,
which sounds suspiciously like what we’ve all envisioned as the
(09:57):
Oversight Committee controlling the UFO information or the UAP information.
Now and that seems to be kind of what MG
twelve was. We we’d always suspected something like that. If
you if you, well, it feels like.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
There would be something like that. It just makes sense
that there would be a group, right.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
Yes, absolutely, that’s what I was saying. We had always
speculated that if you presented with something like the crash
at Roswell, you would create some kind of organization THI tank, Yeah,
the two to look at it and to see where
it’s going on, what it means in its entirety, and
control the flow of information. And I think that you know,
that makes that makes perfect sense.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
We’re gonna have to stop right there, Kevin. When we
come back, we’re going to talk to Kevin Randall about Roswell,
which he’s done extensive work on. You’re listening to Beyond
Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM paranormal
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Speaker 4 (12:12):
We are back on Beyond Contact. I’m Captain Ron. We’re
talking to Kevin Randall. Hey, Kevin, I want to talk
to you about Roswell. Now you along with Don Schmid
and Tom Carey and Stanton and some others have really
done some incredible work vetting these people, digging into this case.
You’ve had the opportunity to speak directly to some of
these first hand witnesses. What are some of the most
(12:33):
compelling aspects of this case that allow you to think
it might be an extraterrestrial explanation.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
The witnesses I talked to personally, of course, Jesse marcell
A senior who I never had the opportunity to talk to,
Jesse marcell junior. Of course we became friends. I talked
to Edwin Easley, who was a Provost marshal and Roswell
in nineteen forty seven. Provost marshal like the chief of police.
He controlled the security for the base, and he controlled
them pea company that patrolled the town for when the
(13:02):
soldiers were misbehaving and that sort of thing. When I
first talked to him, he said repeatedly, I can’t talk
about it. I was foreigned to secrecy, and we have
that on tape, of course, and he’d mentioned a little
bit of what was going on. I think he told
me at one point that mac Brassel had been held
at the guesthouse on the base, which was kind of
an interesting corroboration for mac brasel’s involvement, and we’re talking
(13:25):
about that, and I finally said to him, are we
following the right path? And he said, what do you mean?
And I said, we think it’s extraterrestrial and he said, well,
let me put it this way, You’re not on the
wrong path. Absolutely corroboration leading us to the extraterrestrial. So
that’s what happened. But I think his testimony was very,
very interesting and very credible. Well. Water HoTT, of course,
(13:48):
was always talking about how he had written the press release,
and it turned out he wasn’t sure if he’d written
the press release, or Colonel Blanchard had called him on
the phone and given him the information so he could
produce the press release, or Blanchard called him to office
and handed into the document that he was supposed to release,
or however transpired. But he spent a lot of time
saying that he had not seen anything. All he did
(14:09):
was write the press release. And then she’s a quarter
of a century ago now, I said, around two thousand,
he mentioned to a French documentary company that he had
seen the craft and the bodies, and this alerted Wendy Connor,
I think Dennis Baalzeizer, who interviewed him in depth and
he produced a produced a video of him. And then
Don Schmid, of course interviewed him and they produced a
(14:32):
affidavit that he signed. But that always struck me as
odd because here we are beyond two thousand and he’s
finally admitting that he saw the craft and the bodies.
I talked to a guy in the mid nineteen nineties,
nineteen ninety six, I think Richard Harris, who’d been a
finance officer Roswell in nineteen forty seven, and he told
me back then before Walter Ewart admitted to having seen anything,
(14:53):
they were in the hangar and Walter says, beyond that
door is the bodies. Did you want to see them?
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Said?
Speaker 5 (15:00):
He put his hand on the door, and then he
just decided he didn’t want to see the bodies. I’m
thinking out of him through the door in a minute,
Oh for sure.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
But I mean, you’re.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
Talking about dead bodies, and you know, people get squeamish
and that sort of thing. So that was his opinion,
and I don’t think he understood the magnitude of what
he was refusing to do there. But the point simply
is that here is Harris telling me that the Halt
knew about the craft and the bodies, had seen the
craft and the bodies prior to Walder ever admitting them,
and so that was interesting to me some corroboration that
(15:32):
Walder probably knew more than he had let on.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
There are a lot of these little tiny stories and
little comments that to me just fall right into place.
You know, just the fact that this guy says, I
can’t talk about that. Well, if you can’t talk about it,
there’s something there, because.
Speaker 5 (15:49):
Well, well when you say you can’t talk about it,
you know. We were looking what possibly could have fallen
at Rosweld. They would have been classified at the time,
and the only thing that we really came up was
is since they were the only atomic streank force in
the world, that they may have been practicing with the
atomic bomb. It’s an actually dropped one. It would have
been a practice bomb. It wouldn’t have detonated, but at
the time the size and the shape of the bomb
(16:10):
was classified, and so that would have triggered the recovery operation.
But we could find no evidence that that was the case.
I laid it all out in a book called Rosmo
the twenty first Century, in great detail. The book actually
has over a thousand footnotes in it. We could talk
about the you know, the Project Mogul explanation for Roswolg,
which is completely bold less.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
If you want to do some comedy, go right ahead.
Speaker 5 (16:35):
Well, the point simply is we have the documentation and
the culprit is flight number four mobile flight number four.
But it says right in the documentation it didn’t fly. Well,
how does it leave debris? The other thing is it
was supposedly launched on June fourth. Brazil doesn’t report this
until early July. It laid in the field for a month.
(16:56):
There was so much of this debris that the sheep
refused to cross, so he was interested in getting it
picked up. Had it been a mongo balloon, he could
have done it in twenty minutes by himself.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
They would have this so air tight when they released
their third explanation about what happened, that they would cover everything.
And yet there were all these things you uncovered that
showed that it couldn’t have been Mogul.
Speaker 5 (17:19):
I think the documentation proved the way he said, we
didn’t fly today that the flight was canceled. They said
later in the day they flew a cluster of balloons,
and people said, well, we don’t know what the cluster
of balloons was. Yes, we do, because the documentation is there.
Sometimes when they couldn’t launch the fuller rays, they would
fly in microphone up with a cluster of balloons. It
did not have all these things going with it. The
(17:39):
other thing we discovered and Charles Moore, who was one
of the engineers on MOGOL, told me that flight number
four was configured the same as flight number five. Flight
number five has no ray wind targets. They didn’t use
a ray win targets till later in July. So if
flight number four was configured exactly as flight number five
and there were no ray wind targets, what’s the debris
(18:01):
being displayed in Ramy’s office. Well, here it is the
weather balloon and these raywood targets. Well, clearly it was not.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
Yeah, it’s incredible that you guys dug that deep. You know.
I’ll tell you one time I was with Don Schmidt
and he told me personally how he had talked to
some of these military guys who looked him in the
eye and broke down crying because they’ve they said that
they’ve never talked about this in over fifty years, and
Don personally found that extremely compelling. Do you have any
(18:28):
moments like that regarding the Roswell case that you found
of great interest?
Speaker 5 (18:31):
Like I said Edwin Easley, I mean that was to
me was very important. When we were doing the investigation
actively in New Mexico, we were searching for explanations and
we eliminated practically everything that we could. The Air Force report,
by the way, eliminated all those things as well, all
they could come up with Project mogul So. I thank
the Air Force for confirming what we had said and
(18:52):
then coming up with his Coctamami Project mogul So. Lots
of these things. Joe Briley talking about Colonel Blanchard going
on leave and saying that was a blind because you
know he left the base, and that’s what Joe Briley
told me. Robert Smith talking about handling some of the
debris and the cleanup operation and how they were creating
(19:14):
these big crates to put the debris in and the
debris had virtually no weight to it. Frankie Rowe, who
was the daughter of the firefighter who handled a piece
of the debris at the Roswell Fire Department and he
told the family how he’d gone out and seen the
craft and the bodies. I asked the firefighter, what did
you know, Dan Dwyer, and he said immediately to me, oh, yeah,
he went out. He went on his private car. It
(19:35):
wasn’t an official fire run. He went out and saw it.
I think the testimony of the family of Sheriff Wilcox
was important and dynamic about what they were told in
that sort of thing, and looking at the people who
were threatened in some fashion. I know Frankie Rowe, we
were in Roswell. Frankie Rowe was there. We were in
(19:57):
a walver Hotts house and we were doing a radio
interview and the host of the radio show had a
New England accent and that just scared the hell out
of Frankie Rowe because she remembered this officer coming out
to the house, to their house and talking to her
about what she’d seen and talking about if you talk
about this, your parents will end up at Orchard Park,
(20:18):
which had been a prisoner war camp during the Second
World War. You know that sort of thing. But her
reaction just to hearing that New England accent was very
very persuasive.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
Those things are all compelling to me. What about these
Weren’t there some deathbed confessions from a couple of these guys?
Speaker 5 (20:34):
Technically no, because if you look at the legal definition
of deathbed, it has to be confessing to some kind
of illegal activity. That being said of, there were a
number of people who knew time was short and told
friends and family about what they’d had. You could suggest
that with Edwin Easley, for example, as he was in
(20:55):
the hospital he had terminal cancer. I think it was
a granddaughter had bought a cop of Gods in my
book and showed it to him, and he said, oh,
the creatures right right.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
And also, wasn’t there another guy who left something to
be opened upon his death for his granddaughter? I thought
that he didn’t.
Speaker 5 (21:13):
Well, Walter Hot’s at the David was left to.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Be That’s what it was after he died because he
didn’t want any of the thing happened while he was alive.
Speaker 5 (21:20):
Yeah, I would have been unimpressed with that given the circumstances.
Had I talked to Richard Harris about what he’d seen
and he was telling you Walter HoTT knew prior to
Walter HoTT ever mentioning this to any of the rest
of us. I mean, I talked to Walder Hot dozens
of times. I was at his house, We went to dinner,
we did all this sort of thing, and we would
talk about this and he would he would make it clear.
(21:41):
The only thing I did was I wrote the prespidence.
I took the press release to the media. That’s all
I did. Later on it came out that with the
out the Davit, it came out that he’d seen and
done a lot more.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
Okay, when we come back, we’re going to talk to
Kevin Moore about some of the strongest cases that he
knows about in the UFO community. You’re listening to be
on contact right here on the iHeartRadio and Coast to
Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.
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Speaker 4 (23:29):
We are back on beyond contact. Kevin. I know that
you’ve been able to discredit or at least diminish a
lot of the credibility of some of these UFO cases.
But after looking at this for Jesus over fifty years now,
what do you feel are some of the strongest cases,
the ones that have evidence that may actually have an
et explanation.
Speaker 5 (23:50):
I owe a default to level Land. I did a
book called clearly called level Land about that. It was
a series of sightings in November nineteen fifty seven, Texas,
which is I was going to say just outside of Lubbock.
I think it’s like fifteen twenty miles away from Lobbock.
Dozens of people the sheriff of Hockley County actually said
hundreds of people called him on the night of November
(24:12):
two into the morning of November third, talking about this
thing flying around the area stalling cars. A number of
people reported as it approached their carge installed there are
headlights went out. The radios were filled with static number
of people reporting that.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
And you know, that’s a big thing in today’s in
the folklore of this is the car dying. We see
it in movies now, But in nineteen fifty seven, that
wasn’t known at all, And I think there was more
than just a few people that had that happen, right kevivin.
Speaker 5 (24:38):
Oh There were literally dozens of people. But what was
important what I discovered my investigation of the level land case.
The sheriff eventually thought that he should go out and
look for the craft himself, and he is in a
car with a deputy behind him. Is a car with
the Texas Department of Public Safety, which is the state
police following him behind him is a car. We’re therefore
(25:00):
officers in it. Originally, the sheriff said that he had
seen football shaped or oval shaped, bright glowing red object.
The Air Force came and interviewed him, and then it
was just just a streak of red in the distance
nine hundred yards away or something like that. Later on,
Don Berliner interviewed him in nineteen seventy five, I think
it is, and the sheriff said, well, I saw this huge,
(25:21):
blowing football shaped object. Now what Don Berlinson found. And
there’s an awful lot of dons in this conversation, but
I noticed that Don Berlinson found he was Liz and Rossell.
He went over to Level lad to investigate. Talk to
the sheriff’s wife also talked to the police mechanic in
nineteen fifty seven. The mechanics said, well, the day after
(25:42):
the sheriff had gone out, he came in and wanted
his car looked at, see if there was any mechanical problems.
I’m thinking the only reason he would have done it
is he got close enough to this object that his
car stalled, and if his car stalled, the car behind
him stalled, and the car behind that with the Air
Force Office installed. Don keyho another Dawn for you, of
(26:03):
the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena, was arguing the
Air Force and said, well, he’d talked to nine witnesses
who’d seen the object. You go to the Air Force file,
you can find I think thirteen names. You look at
newspapers and you find a whole bunch of other people
who are involved in this, and then the final piece
of the puzzle is the next day or a day
or two later, he was visiting with a friend who
(26:27):
owned a ranch in the level Land area and they
found a big, long, circular bird area on the ranch
that hadn’t been there, which means the thing touched down.
So we have a landing trace, we have the interaction
with the environment. We have dozens of witnesses, including a
law enforcement military people from the other end of the spectrum.
I mean, a whole range of witnesses who talked about this.
(26:49):
So I think the level Land case is very important
because there’s nothing in our inventory that would cause cars
to stall that way. The Condon Committee, the alleged Scientific
Investigation Unidentified Flying Objects. If you look at their final report,
they mentioned level Land twice, once saying that they didn’t
bother to investigate because they would have had to look
(27:09):
for the cars, and it was too long ago and
they just couldn’t do it, although they looked at other
cases that were as old as that, and then they
said they could think of no mechanism in which you
would introduce an electromagnetic field that would still a car
engine and when you remove that field, the engine would
start spontaneously. And I got to looking at that. So
I’m looking at all these reports. Mark Rodicker did a
(27:33):
monograph on thank four hundred and fifty eight engine stallings
from the nineteen oh nine was the first one and
it went up to nineteen eighty five. So I think
that’s a very important case.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
Yeah, I don’t think it gets in a notoriety that
it deserves. What about shag Harber.
Speaker 5 (27:48):
Which took place in nineteen sixty eight while the Condon
Committee was working. They may have been limited by what
they could do based on the contract they signed shag
Harber being in Canada as opposed to the United States,
so it may be outside there the limits of their
contract to do that. But I’m thinking, I’m a scientists
and suddenly I’ve got this case where the thing plunged
(28:09):
into the lake. There’s a photograph of the thing in
the air. People who saw after plunging the lake their
fishing boats got out there and they saw the yellowish
subjects on the surface of the water. The thing was
detected on the bottom of Shape Harbor eventually disappeared, carloads
of document. Chris Styles and Don Ledger another DoD for
(28:29):
crying in a bucket. Don Ledger investigated in depth beyond
Ledger wrote a book called Dark Object. I think it was.
It’s about sharing Harvard case. It’s very important case because
here is something again where there were multiple witnesses, there
were other chains of evidence, there was large law enforcement involved,
there was military involved, all that sort of thing going on.
So it’s a very important case.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
Do you have another case that you maybe think is credible,
that maybe we haven’t heard of the.
Speaker 5 (28:57):
Lou Alessandro mentioned in his book about some kind of
event in Sioux City, Iowa. They saw an object basically fall.
They went to the state park and found a puddle
of blowing molten metal. In his book, he doesn’t really
tell us much about it other than mention the case.
So I did some in depth research to see where
(29:17):
it went. There’s a scientific paper that I found. The
metal is basically an alloy that could have been produced
in the Sioux City area by a couple of foundries there.
It wasn’t detailed enough or it wasn’t strange enough to
suggest an extraterrestrial component, but it also doesn’t eliminate that.
My biggest fear has always been something like this happening
(29:38):
where we have an actual, legitimate piece of a flying saucer.
I mean, we’ve got something real, it’s extra crestrial origin.
We take it in the laboratory to have an anime sis. Yeah,
it’s aluminum. You know, what do you do? Then it’s
there’s nothing that distinguishes it from some.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Point with aluminum by them, right.
Speaker 5 (29:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
Well, the other thing is those pieces tend to go missing.
That’s the other frustrating thing that I deal with all
the time. When you hear that, well, I.
Speaker 5 (30:02):
Think part of that. In the Arismal case, of course,
there was an effort by the miller to collect all
that material, and so you have that sort of thing
going on. Well, the book Level Land has some of
those smaller cases in it. My focus was on level
Land sightings, but there was a sighting at White Sands
as a matter of fact, later that night by two
(30:25):
MPs that the Air Force rode off as I think
the moon. But I talked to one of the MPs
and he was telling me how the thing had come
down and it was below the horizon and there were
mountains in the background, and the thing was it was
one hundred yards away and it was below the horizon,
but clearly it wasn’t the moon. November third, the next night,
two more MPs saw something in the same area and
(30:45):
the Air Force rote it off as venus or vice versa,
one the way or the other. When the Air Force
declassified the Project Blue Book files or the parts that
were classified before they released him into the public arena,
they redacted all the names from the master index. There’s
twelve thousand cases and there’s problem twenty thousand names, and
they redacted all the names from that. But they didn’t
know a very good job at that. Bob Cornette and
(31:06):
I went to the Nactual Air Force base prior to
the Air Force releasing him to the National Archives. So
we saw the index with the names in it, and
the first thing we did was go through it and
we wrote down the names of everybody involved in an
identified case or a photographic case or a physical evidence case.
So we had those names. I think Don Berleinard had
something similar when he had an opportunity the case, but
(31:27):
when they were released to the National Archives, they redacted
all the names. A guy in Ohio doing a bizarre thing.
He would go to Craigslist and look for anything UFO oriented.
There was somebody would put up a box of material
about UFO. So he spent one hundred dollars about the box.
In it he found an unreacted version of the index.
(31:48):
So now we have all the names again. The other
thing I wanted to say is if you go through
the case found normally you could find the names of
the people. And I just thought of the case. There
was a case from April of nineteen fifty two and
the Air Force wrote it off as single witness and
a hoax, and you go to the Project Blue Book
files and they’ve got the date wrong. Barry Greenwood sent
(32:11):
me copies of newspaper articles from that time. The actual
sighting was on April fifteenth, I think it was. And
then there’s names of four witnesses unrelated to one another,
who saw the same thing. So here’s this wonderful case
from Maryland with elecromagnetic effects and this thing going on,
(32:33):
and the Air Force boughts the investigation. I put something
up on my blog about that, so you can take
a look at it. A lot of other stuff.
Speaker 4 (32:40):
Cars, there’s a lot of stuff there. Listen. When we
come back, we’re going to talk to Kevin and get
his thoughts about Arrow and some of these government reports.
He’s been talking about blue Book. We’re going to ask
him what he thinks of those. You’re listening to Beyond
Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal
podcast Network.
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Speaker 4 (34:23):
We are back on Beyond Contact and we’re talking with
Kevin Randall. Kevin, what are your thoughts on this Aerrow report?
Speaker 5 (34:30):
There was a report you classified as a report.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
Well, they did mean this. I classified it as comedy.
But you tell me what you think of it.
Speaker 5 (34:41):
Well, the first report that came out a number of
years ago, I would have said it was like a
C minus high school report. It was so badly done.
It was like eleven pages and it just didn’t really
tell us anything. The sixty four page report, we’ve all
gone through it. I mean we in the UFO community
had gone through it, and we found loads of the stakes.
The history is wrong. I guess you could call it
(35:03):
Condon two point zero, designed to dissuade people from looking
into the UFO fighting. So we’ve looked at all these
cases and we found explanations for all of them. But
want or something like that, it’s just just absolutely ludicrous.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
It’s just kind of followed up with sign Grunge blue Book.
All of them. Don’t you think that they’re all absolutely?
Speaker 5 (35:21):
Absolutely? And that was my point. I said, Condon two
point zero because here’s a scientific report outside the Air
Force chain of command. You know when you talk about
Sign and Grudge and Blue Book and then Moondust and
some of the other projects, those are all military arnt it.
The Condon Committee was a civilian job put up by
the Air Force. They paid I think we ended up
(35:43):
at five hundred and fifty thousand dollars for the report.
The embessing with the Condon Report, I have to get
this in prior to them beginning the investigation. It was
a letter from Lieutenant Colonel Robert Hipler to doctor Robert
Lowe of the Condobumitty, and Hipper says, here with what
we’d like you to find when you do your investigation.
Air Force did a good job of investigating. There’s no
national security interest in these things. Further scientific study is
(36:08):
not going to provide anything. So he might as well
close Blue Book and low and behold when they finish it,
that’s exactly what they found.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
Wow, what a surprise. Ending to their scientific investigation.
Speaker 5 (36:19):
Condon was in according to New York talking to a
group of engineers and he tells them, yeah, I don’t
think there’s anything to this, but I’m not supposed to
come to this conclusion for another eighteen months. I mean,
when you look at the history of the investigations, official investigations,
it’s all basically the same. You know, there’s nothing to it.
(36:40):
We should do anything.
Speaker 4 (36:41):
I was just going to say, what are your thoughts
on louil Is Isando? You mentioned him earlier.
Speaker 5 (36:45):
I read his book. I was disappointed because he really
tells us nothing about the UFO investigation, our UAP investigation
that we didn’t already know. The one thing he did
do that I found interesting in his book was he
laid out in a after the whole Nimtz sightings events
in a chronological order, and I hadn’t seen anything as
(37:05):
detailed as that elsewhere. An awful lot of his book
is about his experiences with the military, the infighting and
political nature of duty in the Pentagon.
Speaker 4 (37:17):
Hey, let me ask you this, what are your thoughts
on David Grosh.
Speaker 5 (37:20):
I’m as close to this stuff as he is. He
doesn’t know anything that I don’t know. I was upset, worried,
concerned when he mentioned the Italian crash from nineteen thirty three,
which colleagues in Italy who had investigated in the nineteen
ninety says it’s a hoax, which makes me wonder about
the credibility of his sources. He does mention Roswell. I
(37:40):
also did a thing on my blog where I speculated
what the ten other crashes that he didn’t talk about.
Some of this has come up in other discussions that
suggest I’m on the right track, and I’ve been able
to connect Grush with Lou Alizondo. In his own book,
he talks about David Grush, and I think he puts
him in the room with Christopher Mellon, and we know
what mellen has talked about in the way of crashes,
(38:01):
so we can kind of put this information together. So
I think he is reporting accurately what he has heard
from people he respected, who had high level jobs in
the government at some point or may have been observers
of these craft. But he doesn’t He didn’t see anything himself,
He didn’t handle any of the debris, He wasn’t involved
in any of the ellected retrievals. And I, you know,
(38:22):
Don Schmid, Tom Carrey and I can say the same thing.
So when I say that we’ve talked to people who
saw the bodies, we talked to people who were involved
with the retrieval operation. We talked to people who were
threatened by the military, so we’re as close to this
as brush is. He just didn’t tell me anything that
I didn’t already know. The same thing with lou Alessandro’s book,
(38:44):
when you get away from the politics in the Pentagon,
which I wasn’t familiar with, having never served in the Pentagon,
but understanding the security procedure, But when you get away
from that, you get into the UFO aspect of it
or the UAP aspect of it. He didn’t really provide
any information we didn’t know. He mentioned he mentioned Kexsburg,
the UFO craft, the Kexsburg in his book, but it’s
(39:04):
in relation to Leslie King’s investigation into that. But that’s it.
He’s just you know, Leslie Kane was involved with NASA
the or sued NASA about the Kexburg crash. No idea
what that means if you’re outside the field and you’re
not well versed in it. December ninth, nineteen sixty five
event where Stan Gordon says there was an object that
crashed near Kexsburgh in the military retrieved him, but he
(39:26):
doesn’t go into that. So with his book, there was
really nothing in there that was an interest to me
as an investigator view I follows, But I just found
nothing in David Rush’s testimony that I found particularly persuasive
that I didn’t already know. And I could say the
thing about lua Arozandro’s book, right right.
Speaker 4 (39:44):
So, Kevin, what kind of pace are you on? Is it?
Is it two books a day that you write? Is
that about the pace you’re doing these books?
Speaker 5 (39:50):
Ashley, I’m only writing one at the current time because
it’s very confusing. It’s going to take a major rewrite.
I have a series of action venture novels and four
of them are done, and I’ve been struggling with the
fifth one.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
But it’s how much you’ve written. Do you have a
favorite book of all your books, or one you’re most
proud of? Perhaps?
Speaker 5 (40:12):
Well, I always point to the Leveland book because it’s
kind of outside the mainstream of upology, but it’s an
in depth look at that case, and I think that’s
an important boot And I think Roswold in the twenty
first century is fun because people have told me that
the footnotes are more fun than the text because there’s
all this ansellor reinformation stuck in there.
Speaker 4 (40:31):
It’s a lot of work, but it’s important work.
Speaker 5 (40:33):
Yeah. But I’ve done a lot of books in a
Vietnam Brown Zero series that you go on Amazon. Look
by Eric Kell by the way for those Eric Helm.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
Yeah your surname there, you have another surname. Don’t you
have another name? Remember?
Speaker 5 (40:45):
And I was Cat Brandigan, I was Steve McKinsey, it
was James Butler Bonham. Most of all of that stuff
is now being published under the pseudonym of Eric Helm.
I did a science fiction novel called The Interplanetary Defense
for IDF, not realizing that I was stabling the name
from the Israelis. This is not a bad thing, you know,
(41:07):
but it’s slightly different, and that just came out to
science fiction novel I think is kind of fun. And
I did a book called On the Second Tuesday of
Next Week is a time travel novel. Oh and remember
the Alamo, where a group of mercenaries are sent back
to Texas to win the Battle of the Animal. So
you got thirty guys, actually men and women go back
to modern weapons and they managed to break up the
(41:27):
Mexican funnel attack on the Alamo and a matter of
minutes at one point one of the mercenaries is trying
to pick off the Mexican officers at a at a
thousand yards, and Travis says to him, you know that
way outside your ranges. Don’t worry about it. We can
do that. It’s a lot of fun stuff in that
book too, So there’s a lot of books.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
I can’t believe how much you write. That’s fantastic. I really,
we all really appreciate all the work you’ve done.
Speaker 5 (41:54):
I stopped counting at one hundred and fifty books.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
Jesus. Not only does he write a book a day,
he also has his blog, which is Kevin Randall dot
blogspot dot com. You can hear him every week on
Thursday or Friday night on Coast to Coast AM. Kevin,
thanks a lot for coming on.
Speaker 5 (42:11):
Its three to five minutes on Coast to Coast AM
doing an update of what’s going on, talking about like
what’s going on in the UFO field, and always some
kind of an interesting siding as well.
Speaker 4 (42:21):
It’s great, it’s great. Please check out the website of
the ANHHANS organization, the New Paradigm Institute dot org, as
they’re doing incredible work moving our knowledge on this topic
forward as well. We’ll be back next week with an
all new episode. You can follow me Captain Ron on
Twitter and Instagram at CITD Underscore Captain Ron. Stay connected
by checking out Contact in the Desert dot com. Stay
(42:42):
open minded and rational as we explore the unknown right
here on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal
Podcast Networks.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
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