Deeper Down the Rabbit Hole continues Captain Ron’s exploration with researcher Kelly Chase into the intricate world of UFOs and alien phenomena. Kelly shares more of her personal UFO experiences and evolving beliefs. They delve into the fascinating connection between consciousness and extraterrestrial encounters. This episode expands on UFO theories, offering deeper insights into the complex relationship between human awareness and unexplained aerial phenomena.
Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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of the Afterlife with the Santra shandplay.
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(00:42):
your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Hey everyone, Captain Ron and each week on Beyond Contact,
we’ll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of
the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from
the newest cases as we talk with the top experts.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Welcome back to Beyond Contact. I am Captain Ron, and
today I’ll be speaking again with Kelly Chase for part
two of our interview. Kelly’s a branding and marketing expert
and also the host and creator of the very successful
UFO rabbit Hole podcast. We were talking with her about disclosure.
Let’s talk about this UAP Act real fast here. Remember
Schumer wrote this bill in twenty twenty three. Of course,
(01:39):
it eventually got gutted from sixty four pages down to
I believe twenty four and now they’re making some efforts
to try to reinstate part of it or pass pieces
in other bills. They’re going to try to get back
some of these witness protections and eminent domain and some
of these other pieces of the bill. But I can’t
help but feel Kelly, let me s get your opinion
(01:59):
on this. Even if we got everything we needed in
this bill when it’s its original form really was thorough,
that this would not be the watershed moment we hope
it is. If any of this is real and the
government has this technology, and they have bodies and craft
and all of these things that people speculate that they do,
(02:20):
I would think that people controlling that knowledge would be
able to further bury it somewhere deep somewhere. They’d be
able to skirt these provisions some way. And it doesn’t
matter what bills or laws we passed they’re going to
bury it, right, what do you think?
Speaker 5 (02:37):
No, I completely agree. I mean, starting with the fact
that this legislation, you know, by Chuck Shoomer’s own admission,
was modeled on the legislation that was written to give
us transparency around the you know, JFK assassination. And we’re
not exactly like swimming in JFK transparency around here, you know,
like we still every president continues to push back when
(02:58):
that when that inform is going to be released to
the public, And that same mechanism for the president to
make that decision was in that bill. And there were
a lot of other things as well. You know, I
think that what people don’t recognize and that I only
recently learned, and this is a statistic that blows my mind.
I don’t know what the current numbers are, but there
is a study that was done in two thousand and
four that basically showed that the government in two thousand
(03:22):
and four, the government, as we think about it, like
in your as you learn in like fifth grade, is
one point eight million people. However, there’s this like black
part of the government that’s made up of contractors and
you know, people in classified jobs, people with you know
clearances and that sort of thing that aren’t an official
(03:43):
part of our government, and that is four million people.
And I think that what we don’t realize that you.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Just said, yes, double of what we know is in the.
Speaker 5 (03:53):
Government exactly, and that was in two thousand and four.
I can only imagine that it’s gotten worse sensaled. I
don’t have those numbers for sure, and I think that
that’s a really profound thing to recognize. I mean, honestly,
if we take David Grush at his word, if what
he is saying is like materially true, even mostly true,
what he’s saying is that there is a rogue faction
buried within that kind of black part of our government
(04:16):
that’s sort of a government but not really our government,
that has possession of paradigm shattering technology, and that they
are accountable to no one. And so I don’t think
that as much as I think it’s important that we
try through these legislative measures to get more transparency, like
we have to start somewhere, I think it’s naive to
think that, like they’re going to pass a law and
(04:38):
those people who’ve been guarding this secret for decades and
decades and who are accountable to no one and who
have all of these vast resources, are suddenly going to
be like, oh, you got.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Us, Yeah, I see, I see the penalty, So we’re
going to do it. See. I kind of fear that
this will have the opposite effect. They’ll pass this bill,
they’ll get this thing, and then the mainstream world’s going
to go, well, we have it, and they have haven’t
turned everything over, so therefore there’s nothing to this, and
it’s actually going to bite us in the ass. That’s
what I fear is going to happen here, because I know,
(05:08):
I know Steve Bassett and Danny Sheahan and God blessed
these guys for fighting on the front lines. They think
that this could really do some good. And I think
protecting witnesses is the number one thing, and that probably
would do some good. I just don’t think we’re going
to get to the real bottom, like you were mentioning
of these black projects. Why would those guys give that up?
If it’s this, if it’s as big as we think
(05:29):
it could be, They’re not going to They’re going to
figure out a way that they operate so far outside
of this that it doesn’t matter to them what little
laws or rules you have. Okay, let’s move on here
to you know we have. We don’t have an idea
of what we’re dealing with here. I mean, it’s incredible
how we really just don’t know. We make all these
associations based on first hand accounts and books and movies
(05:51):
and whatnot, but we really don’t know. People that have
had experiences don’t know. You brought up a fascinating interesting
point the other day where Whitley streamer of all people,
Whitley streamber at the Sole conference pointed out that we
really don’t have any evidence that UFOs have anything to
do with the abduction phenomenon. They may in fact be unrelated.
(06:13):
Isn’t that fascinating?
Speaker 5 (06:15):
No, I think that’s incredibly fascinating, and I think that
it also shows kind of the level of skepticism and
humility that we need to bring to this topic. It’s
something that I really admire about Whitley is that I
think that a lot of people have this conception of
Whitley is that he’s just like this overly credulous guy
who believes every crazy story. And granted, Whitley has more
(06:35):
crazy stories than just about anybody you will ever ever meet.
But the fact that he’s been able to have this
kind of like incredible life in these decades long interactions
with whatever this thing is and maintain that level of objectivity. Like,
that’s a reason that I really admire Whitley and kind
of see him as a as a mentor, because I
(06:57):
think that that kind of radical skepticism and that unwillingness
to connect a dot without having enough objective evidence to
do so is exactly what we need to kind of
unravel this thing.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
I agree one hundred percent. And I also like to
bring out to people about Whitley. You know, he got
a lot of criticism when Communion came out, the number
one criticism being well, he’s a science fiction writer. Of course,
he wrote this book, okay, in whatever it was eighty
seven in the eighties when that criticism came out. That’s
a fair criticism. Here we are, what forty some odd
years later, he is as hell bent into this topic
(07:34):
as he ever was, and I think that sort of
justifies his position, and it really kind of strengthens the
case of his claims. This seems to even tie in
with possibly near death experiences and other paranormal anomalies. There
seems to be a lot of overlap, and I can’t
help but feel that all of this might somehow be related.
(07:55):
It’s just stuff we don’t understand yet.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
What do you think, No, I completely agree. I think
think that in a lot of ways, UFO, like that
word is kind of like a stand in for this
much larger phenomenon that’s going on, and that if you
look at you know, once again, this is why you
have to go back. I think, you know, people don’t
go back enough and like read their history and understand,
(08:17):
you know, the history of this topic and and of
the people who are involved in this topic. If you
look at some of the people who are kind of
at the root of what we see as the modern
you know, disclosure movement, you know, we if we trace
the lineage back from Arrow to the UAP Task Force
to you know, a tip ASAP and then you know,
back to like to NIDS and to Bob Bigelow, and
(08:38):
you know, you go all the way back, like these
people who have been doing this for decades, and all
of them are fascinated not so much with UFOs as
they are with near death experiences di phenomena. You know,
you look at all of these people who were involved,
you know, like how put Off and you know Russell
targ and you know all of these people who were
(08:59):
involved in you know, Stargate and these like early remote
viewing programs and all of that stuff within the government.
When you see that, what you start to understand is
that like these things have always been tied up. It’s
not just about like lights that we see in the sky.
This seems to also be tied profoundly in some way
(09:20):
to consciousness, to human potential and like what we’re actually
capable of as human beings. And that’s really complex, and
it takes like a lot of reading and parsing to
get to a point where you can, like it’s hard
to just explain to somebody on the street like how
those things are related, but it’s clear that they are
deeply related. And so I think that, you know, people
(09:42):
say like, ah, I just want to you know, I
don’t want to deal with any of that consciousness stuff
that’s all WU. And it’s like, well, I don’t think
you can throw that out though. I think that if
you throw out the what people call WU, you’re no
longer really talking about the UFO phenomenon. You’re talking about
this kind of like construction in your head of what
you think the UFO phenomenon is. We can’t deny the
hard parts just because we don’t want to deal with
the data.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
I agree one hundred percent, and I am on that
list of people that are equally fascinated by the near
death experience these different kind of anomalies. I think I’m
just curious as to the unknown. I think that’s the
attraction here. When we come back, we’re going to be
talking more with Kelly Chase here about UFOs and consciousness
because that ties in as well as she just mentioned.
(10:22):
You are listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and
Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast Network. Okay, we are
(10:45):
back on Beyond Contact. I’m Captain Ron and we’re talking
to Kelly Chase. Kelly, we’ve talked a lot about UFOs,
and it’s hard to not definitively what these UFOs are.
Most of the time, it’s a light in the sky,
which could be a myriad of things, including a UFO.
Being open minded works both ways. You aren’t open minded
(11:06):
because you think I’m open to these objects being UFOs,
therefore I’m open minded. That’s that’s not accurate. Well, you
actually have to be open to them being something else too.
That’s what open minded is. I get frustrated when people
immediately jump to UFO. I do think that some of
these things could be UFOs. I just don’t think that
(11:28):
should be the first option. I think it should be
the last option. Let’s look at every other possible explanation.
Then maybe it’s one of those very rare instances where
we have a truly unknown What do you think?
Speaker 5 (11:42):
Yeah, I absolutely agree. I you know, the vast majority
of sightings are probably something prosaic, or at the very least,
they’re you know, some sort of technology that we’re not
aware of. You know, we have lots of stuff in
the sky that people didn’t like grow up seeing, like
you know, Starlink and the International Space Station and you know,
(12:02):
all kinds of satellites and that sort of thing, and
you know, now there’s suddenly drones, and you know, there’s
all kinds of stuff up there that like we didn’t
most of us didn’t grow up seeing in the sky.
And so I think a lot of it is a
case of misidentification, and so you really have to be,
you know, careful about assigning that kind of like UFO
(12:24):
label to just anything that you’re like, I don’t know
what that is. I mean, yes, it is unidentified and
it’s flying, But to claim that it’s truly anomaloust I
think that it has to to do something anomalous, and
you also have to have very meticulously gone through the
extensive list of all the other things that it could
be and definitively say like, it wasn’t that and so.
(12:44):
And I think that that’s what most people aren’t aren’t
really doing that work because it’s hard to do. It
takes a lot of work. You know, there’s a lot
of move on investigators who are like really skilled it
kind of running through all of those potentialities and you know,
ruling things out. But for most of us, we don’t
have that time. And so I think that we just
need to like remain skeptical and like you said, stay
open to it, not as open to it not being
(13:05):
a UFO as we are to it being a UFO.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
It’s too easy to default to, oh it’s a UFO,
it’s an alien. Well that yeah, that’s easy. It’s hard
to know what to trust on video these days. You know,
everyone has a camera in their pocket, which is great,
but Also everyone has access to Photoshop, and now we
have these AI systems and it has ability to create
(13:29):
video images. So it’s becoming harder and harder to discern
what’s a credible sighting and what’s not right.
Speaker 5 (13:37):
Oh absolutely, I mean I make a certain contingent of
people actually very mad. This is like the thing I’ve
gotten the most angry emails about, you know, whenever I
say this, But it’s but I believe it’s true, which
is that I think that videos are terrible evidence. Just
in general, there’s no real way in twenty twenty four
to prove that any particular video is real or not
(14:00):
unless you can prove specifically that like fraud has taken
place where you can identify this thing. Even then, it’s
it’s often speculation about, you know, if this could be faked, right,
But we have AI video, we have deep fakes, we
have CGI, and that is only the proliferation of these
things that can fool us are only growing. And so
(14:21):
I don’t think that videos. I just don’t think videos
are great are great evidence. I don’t think they ever
have been. And you know, you can see that there’s
there are people online right now who are still fighting
with like Mick West, and you know these other skeptics
about you know, the gimbal video and the those those
Navy videos that came out in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Right, we know those are real, but we just don’t
know exactly what’s on that video.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
Right, And both sides have declared victory, right, Like, both
sides have said we’ve definitely debunked it or we’ve definitely
you know, proven it’s true. And I think that both
of both sides are being disingenuous.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
One that’s back to our earlier conversation where people are
dug in their candidate can do anything they want. Because
this is my position, it’s it’s a shame that we
can’t more be truly open minded and kind of you know,
accept these things. I do like it when these stories
have multiple witnesses, and those multiple witnesses also have a
(15:14):
photo or video evidence that at least supports their position.
I think you need all of that. The more you have, obviously,
the stronger it is.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
To me, absolutely absolutely, if you can, the more corroborating
evidence that we have, the better. And I think videos
can be really interesting and like I love looking at them,
but unless you have kind of an accumulation of other
data that corroborates what’s being seen in the video. I
think it’s really difficult to say exactly. And even when
(15:43):
you have that, you can say like, Okay, there was
something there, but then we’re no closer to figuring out
what that thing was exactly. All we can really say
is that it’s anomalous, that’s and.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
And yeah, that’s the best we can do. That’s the truth. Okay,
So what about this AI we’re talking about. To me,
if there was another civilization that was advanced out there
in the world, it would only make sense that they
would send AI out into the universe to explore. We
didn’t even have this term ten twenty years ago, so
this is sort of new to us. You know, what
(16:14):
are we That’s what we’re going to do. We’re going
to send space probes that have artificial intelligence on them.
Why would you send a biologic being? They need to eat,
they need to sleep, they get sick, they die, there’s
all these issues. But AI, on the other hand, can
continuously learn, can work twenty four hours a day, doesn’t
(16:34):
deal with sickness or microbes or anything like that. So
I think when people see some of these lights or
craft in the sky making these ninety degree turns, and
they say, well, that can’t be real because a human’s
brain couldn’t handle the g fos blah blah blah blah. Well,
I don’t think there’s a biological being on there. Necessarily,
it would just be an AI machine. That’s what makes
the most sense to me. Now, that could be a
(16:56):
military craft, it could be something from another government that
we don’t know, but even if it is alien, it’s
more likely to be AI in my opinion, What do
you think?
Speaker 5 (17:05):
No, I completely agree, and I think those are all
all fantastic points. I also think that that there’s the
problem of communication. You know, we think think about the
fact that, like, dogs are fairly smart, right, and they
live in our homes. They’ve been our little buddies for
thousands of years, and yet there’s a real limitation on
how much we’re even able to communicate with them, right
(17:27):
and But like, like, you can have a certain level
of understanding with your dog, but like, explain a credit
score to your dog, right and so and so, if
there were these more advanced beings, or more technologically advanced
beings who wanted to come here or wanted to communicate
with us in some way. I think that we really
underestimate the extent to which that might be difficult, because
(17:47):
we have different sensory apparatusm we have different culture, and
we have different context for everything, and so I think
that that might be really difficult. But like AI thinks
really quickly, it thinks, you know, thousands and thousands of
times faster than a biological entity, those algorithms can be
more plastic and can more flexible than you know, at
(18:08):
least our own biological intelligence as we know it can be.
And so I think that you know, beyond all the
excellent reasons you know you put out there, I also
think that you know, we see how quickly just in
the last few years, AI, even the kind of lower
level AI that we’ve developed right now, like how quickly
it’s evolving, and how quickly it can learn, and how
quickly it learned to talk to us like it was
(18:29):
us that you would almost maybe need something like that
if you were going to try to communicate with a
species that was that was fundamentally different than you.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
AI is another example of how this new technology comes
along and suddenly opens up all of these doors for us,
as did the telescope, and as we got more telescopes,
we got more knowledge. I love to point to the
fact that I forget the year always, but it’s in
like the twenties when we had the Wilson Observatory. Until
(18:59):
we had that telescope, the top mainstream scientists in the
world thought that our galaxy was in fact the entirety
of the universe. And it was only when we developed
a telescope to see further that we realize that this
isn’t the universe. This is a tiny little galaxy which
(19:19):
is our Milky Way Galaxy, and we’re part of many
galaxies that make up the universe. And that wasn’t ten
thousand years ago, that was right around one hundred years ago.
So you can imagine, like, look at this AI technology
that we’re just in the beginning stages of where’s that
going to be in five years, ten years, god knows,
(19:40):
one hundred years, my god. So it’s these kind of
advancements that I think open up this to a much
larger understanding for us. When we return, we’re going to
be talking more with Kelly Chase. You’re listening to Beyond
Contact right here on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
am Paranormal podcast Network. We are back on Beyond Contact.
(20:15):
I’m talking to Kelly Chase, and Kelly we spoke about
this whole thing, how these different phenomenon could tie into
the afterlife and other aspects of reality that we just
don’t quite understand yet. I hear a lot of overlap
in the first person accounts of these different phenomenon, like
we mentioned earlier, and it may be so much larger
than just beings getting on a craft and flying here.
(20:37):
There’s this whole consciousness aspect of this phenomenon that is
really fascinating. And I love these hard science guys, like
for example, Max Plank had that quote and it says,
I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative
from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we
(20:57):
talk about, everything that we regard as ex existing postulates consciousness,
and so it becomes even more of a tangled web.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
Right absolutely. I mean, I think that we are on
the verge of discovering not just non human intelligence and AI,
and I think that there’s a lot happening all at once.
We’re really at this kind of quantum leap in terms
of our evolution as humans. And I think that, you know,
it’s something that in some ways started with the Enlightenment,
(21:29):
where you know, suddenly we were we kind of discovered
what we would consider modern science, and you know, we
kind of put away all of these things that we
couldn’t measure directly. We said, you know what, if you
can’t measure it directly, then you can’t really say anything
about it. And then over time that kind of shifted
from if you can’t measure it, you can’t say anything
about it too. If you can’t measure it, then it
doesn’t exist, right, And that’s sort of the place that
(21:51):
we’ve been for the past, you know, one hundred or
so years, because that’s the way we kind of do
things right, Like we make a change and then we
go too far, and then we over and then we
come back. And I think the pendulum is swinging back
the other way, where we’re saying, clearly there are things
that we can’t measure directly that do have some sort
of an actual existence, and we can’t just kind of
(22:12):
like dismiss those things because it turns out that they
might have something to them. And I think that we’re
just at a place where we’re starting to recognize and
that as we do that that our concept of you know,
like you were talking about before with the telescope and
how it changed our perception of what the universe was.
I think that we’re at a place where we’re starting
to understand more about our place and the cosmos and
(22:33):
what we are and what we’re capable of, and that
probably one hundred years from now even people are going
to look back at what we thought now and we
will have a completely different perspective on all of that.
It can be really disorienting and it can be stressful,
but it’s also like a really really cool time to
be alive because there aren’t these like huge inflection points
that happen very often.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Agreed. Wasn’t there a quote like in I think the
late eighteen hundreds where they said that we now know everything.
It’s just a matter of weighing and out. Isn’t there?
What’s that quote? Isn’t this? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (23:02):
Alfred Lord Tennyson said, like, there’s nothing left to discover
in science, only greater and greater measurement.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
I guess exactly.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
We discovered quantum physics, like you know, a decade later,
and he looked silly, so right.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
I think, And that’s how I feel a lot of
people that disregard areas of this phenomenon are going to look.
In my opinion, I feel we just don’t have the
technology or knowledge of this yet, you know, just like
you said the Marianna Trench, we thought that was probably
just you know, rock, and then we had the technology
to go down there and now it’s teeming with life.
(23:36):
Just like we thought this was our galaxy. Then we
got the technology to look beyond our galaxy and it’s
a greater universe. I feel like that could very well
be the same thing here where we understand vibration or
dimensions or whatever it is. I don’t know what it is.
That’s why we’re talking here. But at some point we
will have that technology or that understanding where we will
(23:57):
understand these things better. Do you have thoughts on non
local consciousness? Do you think that that’s what’s happening or
do do you feel like it’s just in our brain?
Speaker 5 (24:06):
No? I mean I think that that I think that
that is what’s happening, and I think that, you know,
some of the best evidence that we have for that
are you know, these side programs that are that our
government has invested a lot of money in you know,
there’s also the work of people like Dean Raiden at
the Institute of Noetic Sciences. You know, they have a
ton of incredible resources on their website so that you
(24:28):
can go and like look at what they’ve done in
the lab to prove that we’re able as humans to
access information that is non local to us. It’s one
thing to kind of like approach these ideas intellectually, but
if you actually take a little time and like try
something like remote viewing, I’ve never met anybody who has
tried it and hasn’t had like some degree of success
(24:49):
that made them say, like, reality is fundamentally not constructed
in the way that I thought it was, because we’re
able to access information that we shouldn’t be able to access,
and so I think that we’re only at the very
very beginning of recognizing that it’s true. And it’s really
exciting to think about what the implications of that could
be as we move forward, you know, as a species,
(25:10):
and what we might be able to do with that.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Just like again, like what you’re saying it ties right
into what I was just saying, which is that reality
is not what we think it is. But when we
gain these new tools, we now know what the galaxy is,
we now know what the universe is. We now we
don’t know what the trenches. Remote viewing just kind of
opens it up to understanding that there are more possibilities.
You know a guy like Dean Rayden that I like
as well as Stephen Schwartz. Do you know that guy
Stephen Schwartz. You know he’s done a lot of these
(25:34):
studies where he does these experiments. I love any of
these sort of mysteries. Like he’ll buy twelve cases of wine,
and he’ll have six cases of wine in that same
batch blessed by monks for a week. Then he has
a party and they hands out that wine, and then
they’ll have you know, these six bottles were blessed by
the monks and these six were not, but nobody knows
(25:55):
what they are. It’s blind. And then he’ll ask the
people at the party, well, which wine do you like?
And they all say, you know, it’s like forget the number,
but it’s like eighty five percent, say oh, definitely, A
is way better. It’s the same batch, it’s the same bottle,
it’s the same everything. But it was blessed by a monk?
Why is that wine better and statistically significant the number see?
(26:18):
To me, that’s something that just shows us there’s more
to what we perceive than is here. That’s I guess
where I live. I live in a space where it
says there’s enough happening in this UFO community to warrant
more scientific investigation. And I believe that there’s more to
life than just the Newtonian three D world that we
all grew up in. Because of these things, like you
(26:40):
just mentioned, people haven’t experienced themselves with remote viewing. Another
one of these for me personally, would be synchronicities. This
is my favorite topic in this field, as I’ve actually
experienced unbelievable, incredible synchronicities that you cannot say to me
it’s just a coincidence. I will not believe you. I
have had those that are so I can’t even believe it.
(27:02):
So what are your thoughts on things like synchronicities.
Speaker 5 (27:05):
Yeah, I love synchronicities, and I think that they point
to exactly what you’re talking about, which is that we
are in some sense co creating our reality, that we
don’t just like exist within this reality, that we are
like our consciousness is enmeshed and is fundamentally a part
of this reality, and that there’s a feedback between us
(27:29):
and our environment and you know the world that we
live in. And I find that to be extraordinarily profound
because I think it really speaks to not just our
power as conscious beings and that I think that we’re
capable of a lot more than we’ve been told, but
I also think that it speaks to that there might
(27:52):
be some greater purpose to us, to us being here.
When your environment is able to produce meaningful experiences for
you that like propel your life in a different direction,
or connect you to a piece of information that you
really needed at that time, or that you know somehow
affirms you, or you know, like like these can have
really profound impacts on people’s lives. Then like that suggests
(28:15):
that you know, there might be something really more to
our existence and that there might be some real meaning
to being alive and to being a human. And I
think that’s a really beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Absolutely, And these guys that deal with after life, like
Richard Martini, for example, they will tell you that you know,
we chose this life and that we are on stage
right now and we’re living in these bodies, acting out
what we chose, but the real higher self is backstage
or up into an ethereal world, somewhere heaven or whatever
(28:49):
you want to call it. There’s another place where our
higher self exists, and we choose to come down to
earth and live these lives. And if that, in fact
is true, then you can imagine that are either our
higher south or another being beyond our comprehension is helping
us along the way on our little journey.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Right?
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Doesn’t that seem to kind of tie in? When we
come back, we’re going to talk more with Kelly. We’re
going to ask her about her brand new production company.
We’ll be right Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast
to Coast AM Paranormal podcast Network. We are back on
(29:38):
Beyond Contact. We’re talking to Kelly Chase today. Kelly, let’s
talk about your brand new entity. I’ll let you pronounce it.
It’s the production company that you have with Jay Christopher
King and Jordan Flowers and the three of you have
created this production company and you have a three piece
mini series coming out called The Beyond UFOs and New Reality.
Tell us about that.
Speaker 5 (30:00):
Yeah, yeah, thank you. So much for asking. So our
new production company is called Atocolypse Productions. The reason that
we named it that is because, you know, we talk
a lot about kind of ontological shock, and I think
that that’s you know, in this community, it’s something that
we talk about a lot. But I think that what
we’re coming up against, you know, and I think that
so much of this conversation has even been about, is
that we’re not just dealing with something that’s going to
(30:22):
be ontologically shocking to people, but we’re really coming up
against an apocalypse of our ontologies. We’re coming to this
place where we’re having recognitions about the nature of our
reality and the nature of human ability, and the proliferation
of life and intelligence that’s out there that’s going to
change everything about how we see the world. We really
(30:43):
do think of it as sort of an ontocolypse and
ontological apocalypse, and so that was the name of the
production company. And our goal is to you know, really
create media that helped people process and integrate some of
these ideas. There’s been some absolutely incredible work that’s been done, documentaries,
docuseries and all of the above that have been done
by people in this field that we really admire like
(31:05):
you know, James Fox and Lesliekane and I could go
on and on, but so far the conversation for the
most part, has really been kind of stalled out in
this place where we’re proving that there’s even a reason
for us to be talking about this, right, Like, we’re
making the case that UFOs are even worth talking about,
and so the whole thing ends up being about, you know,
asking the questions are UFOs is real, and that at
the end you come to like, maybe they are right. Well,
(31:28):
we wanted to start and create media that starts from
the place of this phenomenon is real, first of all,
what could it be and what could it mean about
the nature of our reality, so that we can start
having these larger conversations, you know, not just about the
UFO phenomenon, but about anomalist experiences of all kinds consciousness,
(31:48):
you know, all of these kind of groundbreaking things that
we’re learning about ourselves and about the world in a
way that’s approachable and for people who are newer to
the topic, you know, but also treats people intelligently. I
think that there is a real dearth of like intelligent
media out there, and that people enjoy being spoken to
like their adults. Listen. There are a lot of people,
(32:09):
like you said, who are no way close to even
considering any of this to be real, and a lot
of them may never but there’s also this kind of
growing community of people who do recognize that this is
real and are ready to kind of move the conversation
forward and talk about this in a more nuanced and
complex way. And they don’t care what mcwest and the
skeptics think. They want to have a different kind of conversation,
(32:30):
and so we’re just really trying to carve out a
space for that to happen through our media, and so
we’re really excited. Our docu series should be out by
the end of the summer, and it’s three episodes and
it’ll be available on Amazon Prime and Apple TV.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
That’s going to be awesome. I think what do we
do about it now is a great angle. You’re not
dumbing it down for the lowest common denominator. You’re already
accepting the premise that this something is happening, and what
are we going to do about it? I think that
is fantastic. You’ve got some really incredible people that have
been working on this right.
Speaker 5 (33:01):
Whitley Strieber, Diana Pasolka, Jeff Kreipel, Mike masters, Io Whiteley,
Alex Dietrich. Also some like newer names in the field.
So people who are familiar with my podcast, there’s doctor
James Madden, who just wrote Unidentified Flying hyper Object, which
is actually the first book that we published through our
production company. He’s a philosopher. There’s a really fantastic researcher
(33:25):
named Daniel Elizondo who wrote Loose Threads and has a
book coming out. So we wanted to both like kind
of go to the top experts in the field and
also this kind of new emerging group of experts because
there is kind of like a new generation kind of
coming up through the ranks that we’re really excited to
kind of give a platform too as well. But we
(33:45):
really wanted to make it credible, make it based as
much as we can, and like science and peer reviewed work,
and so yeah, we’re really really excited to show it
to you.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
I love that approach, and we do need new young
blood in this One of the problems in this community, unfortunately,
is most of these guys are aging out. A lot
of these incredible researchers are retiring. They’re moving on from
this and that’s we need some new blood, which is
really great that you’re working on that. You also mentioned
your podcast, UFO rabbit Hole podcast. I believe I heard
a rumor that that’s going to morph into something new.
Speaker 5 (34:18):
Once the docuseries comes out. My podcast is kind of evolving.
I want to be able to have bigger conversations and
bring in more and more people. And also, you know,
when you make of like three episode docuseries, you can’t
say nearly everything that you want to say. We want
to use the podcast as kind of a way to
continue the conversation and sort of double click into some
(34:39):
of the more complex issues that maybe you can’t handle
in like a six minute segment in a television show.
The UFO rabbit Hole is going to be evolving and
becoming the beyond. My co host will be Ja Christopher King,
who’s the director of the docuseries. And then he’s also
somebody who’s contributed a ton to the field in his
own right. He is one of the co founders of
(35:00):
the Experiencer Group, and he also is one of the
co founders of the Incredible and Quire Anomalist conference series
has been going on for the last few years in
New York City. He’s somebody that has become a really
good friend and somebody that I really enjoyed collaborating with.
We’re excited to kind of grow this docuseries not just
as just kind of the seed that we’re planting, and
we’re hoping to grow kind of a larger ecosystem around
(35:22):
the docuseries, or we’re having kind of larger conversations about
this topic that you know, acknowledge the disclosure movement and
all of that, but also we’re kind of going beyond
those narratives which I we called it that and talking
about the full spectrum of what this phenomenon involves. And yeah,
we’re super excited to get started on that.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah, that’s great. Yet we know Jay of course here,
Jay’s part of our contact in the Desert is are
you in a sense? But Jay has the experiencial group
that we have implemented and incorporated into the contact in
the Desert event. I always wonder this when I talk
to people in this field, but you are the one
I really want to ask, which books would you recom
on this subject and what are the must reads that
(36:02):
you feel are the most important?
Speaker 5 (36:04):
Oh, my gosh. I love this question because I love
books so much. Like I said, I think people need
to go back to the beginning. Like I think that
there’s a lot of really great books that have been
released recently. I think, you know, Ross Coltheart’s In Plain
Sight comes to mind, Diana Pasalka’s American Cosmic, and I
think that those things are really great in terms of
getting a handle on what’s going on right now. But
I think you also need to go back to the
(36:25):
beginning and kind of, you know, read things from before.
One of my favorite books and the name escapes me
and I’m so sorry about that, it’s by Edward J. Rupelt,
who was the original director of Project Blue Book, and
I think that reading that and kind of understanding the
roots of that program and the kinds of cases that
they were looking at, and also problems that they were
(36:46):
running up against and the resources that they were not
given and helps to really paint the picture of where
we are today, because not much is change, to be honest.
And I also think going back and reading I always
recommend Jacques Vallet and John Keel. There’s a lot of
lip service given to both of those thinkers in this field,
and I don’t think a lot of people actually read them.
And you know, everybody talks about like the Mothman prophecies
(37:08):
or like Passport to Magonia. But I think you’ve got
to go deeper. With Valet, I always recommend Messengers of
Deception and The Invisible College. With Keel, I really recommend
Operation Trojan Horse in the Eighth Tower. Once you kind
of get your feet wet, don’t be afraid to get
into the experience or stuff like read David Jacobs, read
John Mack.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Those are my two. Those are the two on the
top of my list right there.
Speaker 5 (37:29):
Yeah, I know those are those are probably the two best.
And I think, you know, don’t be afraid to don’t
be afraid to go into that side of it as well,
because I think that it’s incredibly critical to understand what
experiencers are encountering for us to get a holistic view
of the phenomenon.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
And then then you were going to say which podcast
you recommended that’s available on the iHeartRadio on Coast to
Coast am Paranormal podcast, which is.
Speaker 5 (37:52):
Beyond context see favorite. See.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
I just wanted to clarify that to make sure that
everybody knew right where to go for that information, Kelly,
It’s a real pleasure. Where can people find you online?
Speaker 5 (38:03):
The easiest place to find me is at UFO rabbit
hole dot com. You can find head of Everything there.
You can find me on Twitter, also at UFO Underscore
rabbit Underscore a Hole. The podcast is available wherever you
listen to podcasts. It’s on basically every platform.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Awesome, thanks Kelly. I really really enjoyed this. It was
a lot of fun. I can imagine you and I
doing this for about seven hours. Okay, everyone, thank you
for listening to Beyond Contact. We will be back next
week with an all new episode. You can follow me
Captain Ron on Twitter and Instagram at CID Underscore Captain Ron.
Stay connected by checking out Contact intheesert dot com. Stay
open minded and rational as we explore the unknown right
(38:42):
here on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal
Podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost
Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Makes ure and check out
all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going
to iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
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